11.10.2023 | Webcasts & Podcasts

The Marcus Hour | 11.10.23 | Ep. 10 | The Dangers of Filling Out Lender Questionnaires…Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and FHFA Stricter Guidelines and the Secret Blacklists

By Edmund Allcock, Stephen Marcus, Jake Marcus
The Marcus Hour | 11.10.23 | Ep. 10 | The Dangers of Filling Out Lender Questionnaires…Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and FHFA Stricter Guidelines and the Secret Blacklists

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and FHFA Stricter Guidelines and the Secret Blacklists

In this episode of the Marcus Hour, we will explore the complexities and potential pitfalls of dealing with lender questionnaires and the new requirements.  Join Jake Marcus and Stephen Marcus along with guest speaker real estate attorney, Jordana Roubicek Greenman as they discuss the natural tension between condominium lawyers and conveyancers on lender questionnaires, 6(d) Certificates and other issues and look at finding balance between condominium attorneys and closing attorneys for lenders and buyers.

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And yeah, we got plenty of people coming in, still populating in for, a really important topic.

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And yeah, we’re gonna be discussing. The dangers of filling out lender questionnaires, stricter guidelines as to Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, in the secret blacklist.

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This is something that our firm has been navigating pretty, closely and it’s something that Everyone should be aware of.

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If you don’t know, it’s called a secret blacklist for a reason.

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If you don’t know you’re on the list that’s because it’s secret and you won’t find out until you’re actually trying to get a loan in most instances.

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But we have a very, very special guest. I’m going to share my screen. We have, I’m probably gonna miss pronounce your last name.

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Rubeschik? How, how, how, how is that? Rupa check. Okay.

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Lobakcheck, it’s my middle name and but you did very well compared to a lot of people who say like.

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Yeah, yeah, I, I probably should have asked before how to pronounce that, but green man, Greenman, is a lot easier to pronounce.

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So that’s, we got that one down at least and I’ll work on the the middle name.

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But yeah, we have a special guest, Jordan. She’s had her own practice for, over 10 years.

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Mostly you know all real estate attorney representing buyers and salaries and residential transactions commercial transact or commercial transactions for lenders.

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And in the residential transactions anywhere from the offer to the closing so she’s your person for that also has experience in lease agreements representing landlord and landlords and landlords and landlords.

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And a lot of other areas in between. So Jordan, we thank you for coming out today.

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On this Friday morning. And looking forward to a good program and as you can see Jordan was very involved member of the real estate council, for the messages bar association.

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And the real estate bar association and also writes columns for the Massachusetts Lawyers Journal and the Real Estate Bar Association news.

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And also lead seminars such as Today’s, across the state.

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And as you could see today, she’s in a courtroom. That’s where she’ll spend a lot of her time.

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I’m sure with the with the landlord tenant disputes. There’s a lot of quarter of experience and as we saw during the pandemic.

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Yeah, I don’t think that’s a real courtroom, but who knows? It could be virtual, could be real.

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My dad might be a cat, but, that’s where we are. So let’s, let’s get to the main program.

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And. This is, yeah, as I mentioned, the dangers of filling out. London questionnaires, we’ll get to the stricter guidelines.

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The secret blacklist. And how does this pertain to you? So yeah, we’re gonna explore a lot of the complexities and potential pitfalls.

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Dealing with a lender questionnaire. Coming to attorneys such as the 3 of us.

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As to the new requirements. What you should look for. And, and, you know, we’ll also discuss The natural tension between condo lawyers and conveyors on these lost wonder questionnaires.

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Something known as 6 D certificates if you’re not aware of what that is we’ll get to that in the program.

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Just other issues with you know condo closing attendees, and dealing with lenders and buyers.

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So without further ado, We’ll get into the details and Jordan, anything else you’d like to add before we get started?

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Just thank you for having me.

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Absolutely. Thank you for, thank you for joining. And let’s, let’s get to the next slide.

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Yeah, I guess we just start with what our, what our Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and why are they so important to lending?

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To condominium to to condominium buyers. And and basically the the 10,000 foot view is there federally backed home mortgage companies and if either of you, Stephen, I think you wanted to get into some of the details before we kind of get running.

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Yeah, since we as soon as I go, tend to go up on tangents. my thought was and now I’m seeing a comment saying that we’re name dropers, because we mentioned Brittany Mahomes, apparently, but that’s okay.

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The, I’d like to, give the take aways. Fairly briefly before we start getting into the all the specifics and i think there are 5 takeaways the first question is why do we care about what fanny nay of Fredd Mac think or do a say or require and the reason that we worry about what Fanny May and Freddie Mac.

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Yeah, do and require is because They buy the numbers bounce, but they buy probably 70% of the residential loans in the United States from local lenders that infuses the local lenders with billions and trillions of dollars to lend more.

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To single family home buyers and to kind of minimum, purchasers. They are now under conservatorship with the feral, housing finance agency, which has made them maybe super conservative compared to in the past but the getting it takeways the the first one is penny may change there and pretty much change their guidelines effective September eighteenth.

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2023. The significance of that isn’t so much what they changed because they didn’t add that much.

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They did add something about critical repairs, but it’s very vague in terms of is a water leak or mole that could mushroom into something bigger.

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Become an issue. But the real importance of the September eighteenth guidelines, is that after the Champlain Tower, collapse and kill tragically, 98 people.

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And ended up settled in record time, about a year and a day. So collapsing June, the 20 fourth, 2021.

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It’s settled in the year and a day for, 1.2 billion dollars with a day.

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Lenders and Fannie and Fredd got very nervous at the time in 2021 they came up with.

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Temporary guidelines the significance of the September 8 eighteenth changes is those changes are now permanent the question I have to keep in your back of your mind is if Fanny and Freddie were looser.

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In there analysis prior to June, 2420 21. I suppose nobody can tell me that Fannie and Freddie didn’t know that some of these kind of minimum associations as well as attorneys and managers and board members and possibly knowing it.

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That they, weren’t fully funding reserves, that they weren’t doing structural inspections, they weren’t, looking at, TELECTION such as concrete, which might be a, indication for a further.

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Review into whether the rebu is to, on the, the waterfront.

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But the concern is that, on the, the waterfront. But the concern is that Fenian Friday gave money to local lenders for millions of people to buy condominiums across the country.

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Without these Now they come up with these short guidelines and then I’m gonna talk about an insurance issue in the second and you have the millions of people who bought units.

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When, and Freddie wasn’t, keeping an eye on the ball, as much as they are now.

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And the sort of trapped into their homes because if the guidelines become too stringent Then, lenders, 70% of the market is gonna drop out for lenders.

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So, I think. That’s the kind of minimum industry and the advances and closing attorneys and PNI and Freddie have to take a deep dive into what are we gonna do with others.

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Second, second requirement. There’s nothing. In any law that says the condominium associations must fill out lender questionnaires.

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On the other hand, we do have the goal of we do want sellers to be able to sell in the condominiums we represent and we want buyers to be able to buy.

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But, there are some questions on the lender questionnaires. Where such as are the structural repairs where the board of managers may have no clue.

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In terms of, they don’t have the expertise, because they’re not engineers to answer some of these questions.

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So some of them have to be hedged on insurance questions where it says on the 1,976 form, Pammy Meswam, insurance do not answer contact insurance. Asia.

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We of course, advise our associations and managers to do exactly that. And in the insurance section, simply say contact insurance agent give the name and the telephone number in the email, ensure kind of many matures is too complicated, to put boards or managers on the hook for what they represent.

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I contend that we can’t even answer a simple question such as is the kind of minimum insurance for 100% replacement cost unless there’s been an insurance replacement appraisal gun or reconstruction appraisal down because.

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We don’t know what the limits are on the carrier doesn’t. say what they are.

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They just insure you for whatever amount you say you want to be insured for. Be careful also on there’s 2 great companies home wise and condo search so online lenders can get questionnaires that are already filled out for each community.

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But be very cautious on this. I don’t know if it’s the case or not, but be sure that the bottom of, the phones for those 2 companies that managers, are using quite a bit that there be a prepared by date.

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In other words, the form should say that the answer, let’s say that the manager, filled out the question after that kind of minimum 2 months ago the form should say this this this one was prepared August fifteenth 2,023 August fifteenth 2,023 contact manager to see if any changes.

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The other thing to be careful about is where they start going to the structure, and this thing to be careful about is where they start going into structure, and this can cut both ways.

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In some cases, we’re seeing structural. The repairs. On the form and lenders then blacklisting the condominium because of that.

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And when the association takes a deeper dive into it, they’re finding that, either the problem that’s on the form has been addressed and completed or defining that another engineer disagrees and does not think that there are a significant structural integrity issues.

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So contact the attorney for the association when you’re being asked to answer things such as structural integrity and a critical repairs.

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And yeah, I think that will. Caution, but the willing to cooperate. I think is the appropriate approach from the kind of medium industries through the world.

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Something that’s popped up post their side is now that there’s a insurance crisis.

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So in Florida, Hurricane Ian. In California and we’re dealing with some kind of minimums in Montana we’re advising the insurance agency, the insurers are excluding fire as a coverage covered risk in their ensuring routes at depreciated actual cash value, not a hundred percent replacement cost.

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So there is a crisis where you’re getting less coverage. For a whole lot more money. And that could be 20% more in premiums, 300%.

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900%. We’ve seen it all and it’s very difficult for, many, without further discussion is not going to go by alone on a condominium that does not have insurance that’s not going to go by alone on a condominium that does not have insurance that covers fire.

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So the confluence of the buy alone on a condominium that does not have insurance that covers fire.

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So the confluence of the surf side collapse, with the weather disasters.

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I think we had for 1,000 year probability events in 2023 already. Events in 2023 already is scary out there.

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And, 2023 already, is scary out there. On the blacklist, is scary out there.

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On the blacklist, is scary out there. On the blacklist, is scary out there.

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On the blacklist, some problem with the blackbusters, it’s fine for paying me to have a list of associations that, uneligible for loan.

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But the problem is, that the Penny May nobody tells the manager aboard so the problems don’t get addressed finally just to be yeah controversial I was on a excellent webinar that Becker and Polyaka from Florida and New Jersey and, did a couple of weeks ago on insurance.

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From Florida and New Jersey and to Prague, did a couple of weeks ago on insurance. It’s really tough down in Florida.

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And one of the questions was, is it safe in 2023? To be a volunteer unpaid board member.

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And I think we’ve gotten to the point. I know I’m the only one who thinks this is a possibility, but I think if you are operating a 500 unit, 100 unit kind of minimum with, each unit worth 500 unit kind of minimum with, each unit worth 500,000, you’re operating a 50 million dollar real estate and condominium business.

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And I’m not sure that very bright board members, but with no expertise in real estate or condominium management.

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And, and couple that with if associations. Up here in terms of not having coverage. In the event of a fire, how many millions, could the board be sued for, the indemnification of most documents is only as good as the ability of the owners to pay for that.

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Those, so with that, 2 min introduction, I’d like to, 2 min introduction.

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I’d like turn it over to Jadana because I, at least want to get the conversation going today.

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Between we all have to work together we all have to row together and we all want sales take place and close things to occur.

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And, John is on the, closing attorney for lenders and buyers side of things on sellers and I think I at least want to get if not resolution at least here what issues She has or has had in the past.

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When she stay on with kind of minimum attorneys or managers. And maybe we can get the list at least established in terms of what are the issues.

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And then perhaps we have time during this. Webinar. but probably not possibly coming to solutions but it’s something that we can work for after this webinar.

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But with that said let me yeah I’m blabber enough. That’s my one or 2 min introduction.

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Thank you, Steve. And I really do appreciate you narrowing down that we want to talk about my issues only as to condominium.

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Associations because we were gonna sit here and talk about my issues we’d be here all day. So that’s good that we’re narrowing that down.

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And yes, I just want to just touch on something before I forget that you just said about this blacklist.

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So not only is it not told to the managers or told to this person, that person, the most important part of that is it’s not told to the public.

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So when a broker goes to list your condo on MLS or something. It would be good to tell the public, hey.

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This condo is not warrantable. Because then it would it would steer away buyers who can’t get a condo without getting a Fanny or Freddie loan.

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So hiding that information and then what we have to go through thereafter with the sort of trying to.

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Squeeze information out of people. Can be difficult. And I know that a lot of us used to sort of try to incorporate.

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At the time of the PNS, hey, we need you to answer these questions about the condominium.

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But just like the tread information, often that stuff doesn’t come back. Built out. So then you wait for the lender to jump in with the lenders questionnaire.

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And especially since surfside, there’s a lot more hesitancy to fill these things out. And so when you’re representing say a first time home buyer was buying a condo in a big building with a big management company.

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They really don’t understand what’s the problem. So since they won’t answer this question, does that mean that the whole building is going to fall?

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In tomorrow? No, it doesn’t necessarily. And, you know, pulling teeth for insurance information and just trying to The fees associated with the getting the information can often be a problem.

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But more so just the hesitance to actually fully answer the questions that are on the firm form and I had asked Jake if he could bring one up.

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Yep. Yep. Okay.

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Just so we can kinda Go over.

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Okay, we’ll also next week we’ll send you the PowerPoint. And a few attachments.

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One is this form, 1076 that the any may lend a questionnaire. The other is an overview of the September, the eighteenth changes and the third is excerpts from the family made guidelines because they’re like 1,180 pages but there’s only about 30 pages that you have to read.

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And I’m curious, Donna, not to lead you on this. But, if you can highlight.

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The questions. Where there’s hedging. We don’t tell associations not to fill answer the questions.

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We have the answers for all of them. It’s just that some of them might not be a yes or no or even an amazing one day the lender can do that.

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So. If while you’re talking about what the managers are saying. I guess I’m interested particularly in what kind of questions they’re hesitating on so that I can even either explain to kind of many, to closing attorneys why they’re hedging or we can make some meaningful change in terms of getting a solution that everybody’s comfortable with.

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Absolutely. Well, one of the things that I’ve tried to do it sometimes is I know, fill out the top part for myself, but then Sometimes people don’t want that and they’re nick picky about what they do where you think you’re being helpful, you’re really not.

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Oftentimes. So there’s not usually any issue with billing in project, legal name.

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The general questions. You more see, you know, the manager sort of rolling their eyes. Well, okay, well, you have to pay me this fee before I actually fill this stuff out, but.

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The, you know, the more specific questions. Like when it comes to the issue about structural stability. And

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. And And I wanna say. This is all on the addendum from December, 2021, which.

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Safeide happened in June, 2021. So there’s no coincidence there.

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That this is the phone that came out of Serb. So the, it so it’s near the end.

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Is my guess it’s 8 pages long which is intimidating, but it starts asking about structural integrity.

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. Yeah

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And I think that’s probably going to be close to the pages 7 or 8. The one, the one thing that they didn’t address here, but they changed on September eighteenth is they added this funky day concept of critical repairs.

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Without saying really what it is that’s not on this questionnaire but arranges from is there a water leak is the mold and it’s had to say that those are earth shaking problems until you see, gee, maybe it’s just replacing a hot water hater, maybe it’s assigned the buildings in danger.

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So the critical repairs, which you’re not gonna see on this is gonna be something that you’re gonna see.

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Yeah, and lenders are hesitant to answer. I mean, the management companies often It sometimes you might think you know they might not even know And so you wonder, you know, how well is this place actually being run if these people can’t answer these questions which You know, I don’t keep these types of records from my own home, but you know, maybe we all should.

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But these things in order to be able to get your loan, you have the the more critical questions are the more important ones.

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And those are the ones that are gonna stop the bank from giving a loan. If there’s an issue with structural integrity or.

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There’s major replacements, major repairs to be done to the rules. To this and that but I also think sometimes it’s a little bit big because It has a more sort of objective way of asking the question so it doesn’t target you know, a specific project in the way that it functions.

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And when it’s new construction Sometimes these questions are not applicable. But that’s not the answer to the Fanny and Freddie want to see or that the lenders want to see.

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Is that oh, we haven’t.

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Soon is gonna be, yeah, somewhat, Tough to answer. And, just to throw in here in addition to the structural and critical repairs.

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The other one that sort of ties into that though you have to think about it to figure out why is they asked about litigation.

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And, they don’t care if the association is chasing unit on us for kind of minimum phase.

00:29:38.000 –> 00:30:03.000
That’s fine. But, if the answer is, ESC copy of attached complaint and it’s a complaint either stating damages or stating damages but for 10 million dollars that the claiming for defects left by the developer whether true or not but that’s what the papers say.

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The litigation. the type of litigation could, end up with a loan also being denied in a building ending up on the blacklist.

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Go ahead.

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Yeah, and just to point something out too, Jordan was starting to get into, you know, how you would kind of fill this out.

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Basic project information, pretty standard. You’ll notice, and then page 2, it talks about project completion information that’s kind of waiting into, the addendum.

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But discusses more, just about, you know, status of the units as a turnover, and all that as far as the condominium, then discusses.

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Third section, which is newly converted or rehabilitated project information. So this is also related to, potential conversions.

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And then it discusses the financial information, which is, which is important to fill out appropriately.

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Then this is kind of standard information as to ownership and other information. In section 5 and then section 6 is what we kind of discussed insurance information, which is a crisis in Florida.

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And it’s actually a crisis everywhere a little bit. Before it gets kind of the most noticeable.

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With kind of citizens having to step up as a state entity. But then I wanted to really point out, yeah, the last 3 pages.

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Have to do with building safety, soundness. Structural integrity and habitability. So you can tell they’re really emphasizing.

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00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:57.000
Yeah. And my comment back to. Jordan. Yes, for debate, not for a fight.

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Is Yeah, I was a kind of, manager before I was an attorney. And. In the decade since things haven’t changed all that much hopefully they’ve gotten better but Kind of minimum management for whatever reason, maybe under the false illusion that you’re not dealing with the units when you really are.

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Is a low, building but condominium managers more people managers than for example engineers.

00:32:42.000 –> 00:32:54.000
Or as one manager said to me, a long time ago, kind of medium management is easy.

00:32:54.000 –> 00:33:06.000
Until the first resident moves in. The Concern I have is if I walked around my house I would not be able to tell you.

00:33:06.000 –> 00:33:14.000
Yeah. What an engineer might in terms of. Oh, gee, that spawning of the concrete.

00:33:14.000 –> 00:33:33.000
Oh, especially if you’re on the ocean, but no matter where you are, that if it’s not visible, if you’re not having Wanna infiltration at the units or whatever so you can narrow down the roof or whatever that sometimes.

00:33:33.000 –> 00:33:37.000
The defect might be obvious if this caution taped. Yeah, because bricks are falling off the building.

00:33:37.000 –> 00:33:46.000
That’s easy to see, but the if there are problems but you have to. To destructive testing.

00:33:46.000 –> 00:33:59.000
The manage is not gonna do it. So, that would be my response to, but, probably probably need more to discussion.

00:33:59.000 –> 00:34:10.000
On it but there’s just some things where The managers simply going up. And that they look at the structure and they’re not engineers and don’t know the answers.

00:34:10.000 –> 00:34:11.000

00:34:11.000 –> 00:34:15.000
So that’s actually, there’s a, there’s a great question that came in and feel free to ask questions.

00:34:15.000 –> 00:34:19.000
There are a few that are, we will get to. And if we don’t, we will ask.

00:34:19.000 –> 00:34:27.000
We will answer them after the program. Okay.

00:34:27.000 –> 00:34:28.000
We’ll send the question.

00:34:28.000 –> 00:34:34.000
And yeah, yeah, when we send the PowerPoint. Yeah, and the handouts bosses and responses to the questions.

00:34:34.000 –> 00:34:55.000
And yeah, I think it’s important because, you all can read what the, what the forms say and have we designed this particular hour has been more like a free for all.

00:34:55.000 –> 00:35:14.000
Of batting around ideas. Because in my mind, the converging of the collapse of surf site and the wildfires and hurricanes, we’re in for a rocky road.

00:35:14.000 –> 00:35:21.000
And somehow we have to get through it and I think we have to get through it with board members, manages.

00:35:21.000 –> 00:35:27.000
Kind of minimum maternity, closing attorneys, Danny May and Freddie Mac at the table.

00:35:27.000 –> 00:35:39.000
The mass mortgage bankers association. But this is a problem that I think is, on my capabilities of knowing what the answers are.

00:35:39.000 –> 00:35:40.000

00:35:40.000 –> 00:35:43.000
But sorry for interrupting, but that’s what Jake and I do best. I’m trying to teach Shake to do that.

00:35:43.000 –> 00:35:50.000
I, I just had one. So I just wanted to get to this one question. Many times their engineer.

00:35:50.000 –> 00:35:59.000
Appoints that have looked. At a specific project last issue at the building but not representing the overall structure integrity of the building.

00:35:59.000 –> 00:36:10.000
How do you recommend the question be answered if there is no inspection? Regarding the overall structural integrity. It’s interesting because in Florida.

00:36:10.000 –> 00:36:20.000
They are now requiring as of. January. First, 2025, they’ll require structural integrity inspections, reserve requirement.

00:36:20.000 –> 00:36:31.000
Specific reserve requirements in Massachusetts. As a counter to that. Reserve requirements is more just adequate reserves.

00:36:31.000 –> 00:36:40.000
Which is more of a, art full term then actual scientific. So I mean, how would you guys answer?

00:36:40.000 –> 00:36:44.000
I mean, you, I think you just want to be truthful on the questionnaires. But what would you guys say to that?

00:36:44.000 –> 00:36:47.000
Yeah. Hi.

00:36:47.000 –> 00:36:59.000
Yes, I actually ran into this on It was a new construction deal. It was only 3 units, so I was fighting the bank the whole time about why they were really requiring this anyway.

00:36:59.000 –> 00:37:12.000
But it was new construction. And they were very concerned and they really focused in on that and they did require you know any All of the building department permits.

00:37:12.000 –> 00:37:19.000
All of the plans and architecture plans that have been submitted to the city because they didn’t have the inspection report.

00:37:19.000 –> 00:37:42.000
So I think that like you said, the bad thing to do is answer honestly, we have not done an inspection, but from the condo management point of view they should also figure out what can I also add to this that will help this person be able to buy this or sell this or whatever it is because there’s there’s probably something there’s some report from when the conversion happened.

00:37:42.000 –> 00:38:02.000
There’s some report from an elevator say or something where the building has had some type of inspection and I think the more you give them the better the more that they have and generally in my experience Although dealing with citizens is kind of like pulling your eyelashes out one by one.

00:38:02.000 –> 00:38:11.000
They do citizens actually comes back with a list of specific questions that they will use in lieu of if the questionnaire can’t be specifically responded to.

00:38:11.000 –> 00:38:12.000

00:38:12.000 –> 00:38:25.000
And depending on how much access you have to the processor or the loan officer, If you have access to the person who’s looking at this document, it can be really helpful for us as conveyors to pick up the point and talk to that person and say, look.

00:38:25.000 –> 00:38:34.000
What is it that you need this to say? Because maybe I can get there. Maybe I can talk to the other side and figure out a way that we can say whatever it is that you need.

00:38:34.000 –> 00:38:40.000
In a way that you’re gonna accept it without. You know, really putting the project in danger.

00:38:40.000 –> 00:38:41.000

00:38:41.000 –> 00:38:49.000
Hey, in terms of my view on it is the question started with we had an engineer and they looked at a specific issue.

00:38:49.000 –> 00:39:04.000
In 2023, I think that the answer I would give. Is, something that would elaborate.

00:39:04.000 –> 00:39:19.000
Full believer in giving out any structural reports unless they’re attorney client privilege because the in anticipation of litigation for the most part if there is a report I’d like it given out to the to the lender.

00:39:19.000 –> 00:39:39.000
But on the issue where you get a report saying, that the, the issue where you get a report saying, that the, concrete is following, and, or some issue, or mechanical systems.

00:39:39.000 –> 00:39:45.000
And they only looked at that issue. I’d want the manager and board to say, Hey, Lander.

00:39:45.000 –> 00:39:56.000
This is the only structural inspection we’ve had. We’re not commenting on the condition.

00:39:56.000 –> 00:40:06.000
Oh the rest of the building. And what Joanna said about. What one lender did, though I don’t think this is.

00:40:06.000 –> 00:40:21.000
All of them or this would be crazy is if the answer means going at the answer that the lender wants means going to The city of town.

00:40:21.000 –> 00:40:32.000
Holding all the building permits, looking at the. As built, the, my 40 years of doing this.

00:40:32.000 –> 00:40:37.000
I don’t think I’ve met a town, that doesn’t say they’ve lost them.

00:40:37.000 –> 00:40:58.000
For they were in somebody’s basement and then that person died. But if there, If there is an investigation to that degree that then gets into how much money is the does the manager have to charge?

00:40:58.000 –> 00:41:02.000
To the lender or the buyer or the sour. Because but for this particular sale and to try to help them out with that.

00:41:02.000 –> 00:41:22.000
Let’s say that there are 20 h worth of work. So, anyway, so I didn’t, a long way of saying, yeah, we, have a sharp feel inspection for a specific line.

00:41:22.000 –> 00:41:34.000
The lender can have its own engineers determine. Otherwise, I don’t think there’s any obligation to run out and do a structural inspection.

00:41:34.000 –> 00:41:39.000
The post surf side that may be just for the health and safety of your residence. So.

00:41:39.000 –> 00:41:43.000
Oh yeah. And there might be statutory requirements depending on the state.

00:41:43.000 –> 00:41:48.000
Yeah, I think what Florida does, it’s creeping into, Maryland. In New Jersey.

00:41:48.000 –> 00:42:12.000
And these what they call in Florida mild post inspections like the state of county requiring inspections like the state of county requiring inspections like the state of county requiring inspections every it used to be 40 years indeed and now it’s every 30 or 25 if it’s on the ocean.

00:42:12.000 –> 00:42:15.000
Like the state of county requiring inspections every it used to be 40 years indeed in Broward County and now it’s every 30 or 25 if it’s on the ocean as these inspections are done neither because economy and board members are nervous, or because the state of county or city.

00:42:15.000 –> 00:42:33.000
Requires that, for Boston requires a facade inspection every 5 years. Those all should be, disclosed.

00:42:33.000 –> 00:42:39.000
And just to be exact, Stephen mentioned on the ocean, the exact requirements are within, 3 miles of coast and 3 stories high in Florida if you happen to have a condo there.

00:42:39.000 –> 00:42:53.000
So that’s something to be aware of. Obviously that’s a, that’s basically a peninsula, so it’s a little bit.

00:42:53.000 –> 00:43:00.000
Just the nature of it is more open to or more prone to, natural disasters or issues.

00:43:00.000 –> 00:43:06.000
But yeah, it’s something that’s creeping up into other states as most issues in Florida tend to do.

00:43:06.000 –> 00:43:22.000
In the condo world so something just to be cognizant of and also always be checking for i mean you’ll probably hear about it if it’s it’s statutorily passed or there’s certain requirements as to Structural inspections are reserve requirements, but just something to keep in mind.

00:43:22.000 –> 00:43:27.000
But I did wanna Jordan, I think you were about to mention, you know, and you kind of hinted at it.

00:43:27.000 –> 00:43:38.000
Just kind of, what documents might, you know, you said kind of produce as much as you can or or give more information to air on the side of caution.

00:43:38.000 –> 00:43:48.000
And here in this next slide. The topic is what documents might lenders, to buyers of condominium owners want to see from the association.

00:43:48.000 –> 00:44:04.000
And you know we have the general insurance policies to see where we’re at with insurance that’s obviously again in Florida a big issue in a big crisis but I think Stephen may suggest that that is occurring.

00:44:04.000 –> 00:44:16.000
In insurance policies are if this is a, we’re around the table trying to resolve.

00:44:16.000 –> 00:44:17.000

00:44:17.000 –> 00:44:27.000
Issues between the kind of minimum world and the closing. on homes world, insurance policies as a very fair request.

00:44:27.000 –> 00:44:38.000
There may be a chance for it but that gets into what the managers may charge but insurance policies are easy to produce budgets, to produce, financial reports are easy to produce.

00:44:38.000 –> 00:44:49.000
Reserve studies and funding schedules. If they hasn’t been one, then it’s difficult.

00:44:49.000 –> 00:45:02.000
And so we can’t. we can’t give anybody something that hasn’t been done.

00:45:02.000 –> 00:45:17.000
But on the, the other hand, see, I just came out, well, in 2021 came out with best practices for building inspections and reserves.

00:45:17.000 –> 00:45:38.000
I was try chair the national task was some building inspections but on the reserve side they changed reserves studies so that CAI, which is not the government, it’s a, yeah, national nonprofit for condominiums, requires that the reserve, I would include a structural inspection by an engineer.

00:45:38.000 –> 00:45:46.000
And I’m guessing that, by the end of the year, will also require a reserve inspection.

00:45:46.000 –> 00:45:56.000
The other they have out on reserve studies. Is. For established condominiums that have existed for a long time.

00:45:56.000 –> 00:46:11.000
90%. So transfer of control a long time ago. But it doesn’t say specifically that reserves the family doesn’t say specifically reserve studies are required.

00:46:11.000 –> 00:46:21.000
What it says is reserve study or your budget current budget must provide for 10% of the budget is for.

00:46:21.000 –> 00:46:29.000
Replacement for reserves. Some of the reserve study might not exist, special assessment documentation, that should be something that can be provided.

00:46:29.000 –> 00:46:41.000
Litigation. The that probably should come from the attorneys and maybe it’s gonna be. Then maybe the attorney is gonna say, hip cut copy of the docket, the blank, the answer.

00:46:41.000 –> 00:46:49.000
That should give sufficient information to the lender. Building inspection reports, yes, if one exists, give them.

00:46:49.000 –> 00:47:08.000
Board meeting minutes by statute every kind of many of them must maintain minutes of their meetings and if, so, manages hedge on the lender questionnaire about structural integrity issues.

00:47:08.000 –> 00:47:26.000
12 months of board meeting minutes. Very likely is gonna have a discussion. If there are problems that the association is trying to address.

00:47:26.000 –> 00:47:38.000
So on all those items, I agree, but don’t know what my fellow condominium practitioners think.

00:47:38.000 –> 00:47:51.000
I think those are all. A reasonable request. And subject to what the man.

00:47:51.000 –> 00:47:52.000

00:47:52.000 –> 00:47:55.000
They are but I mean for instance for a 4 unit condominium. I would beg to differ that they have 12 months of board meeting minutes.

00:47:55.000 –> 00:48:07.000
I would beg to different that they’re even having meetings at all. So

00:48:07.000 –> 00:48:08.000

00:48:08.000 –> 00:48:30.000
Oh, okay. Yeah, I agree. Oh, good. Yeah, the board meeting minutes are, I’m thinking of logic, and, and only if they need monthly to meet quarterly, then it’s that if it’s 3 or 4 units or 2 units that if it’s 3 or 4 units or 2 units, we know we have a problem because they probably don’t even have a

00:48:30.000 –> 00:48:31.000
Yes, South, South Boston.

00:48:31.000 –> 00:48:39.000
And I think the litigation stuff, it’s interesting because I had one in that building where, Somebody got in and they went to the penthouse and they killed the doctor they forget this was within the past year Yeah, and They did a really good job every time there was a sale.

00:48:39.000 –> 00:49:04.000
They had a legal opinion from the lawyer handling the case. And a legal opinion from the person that they hired to inspect their insurance documents to sort of convince the buyer in the lender that hey look even if we lose this 100% we have more than enough money This is fine.

00:49:04.000 –> 00:49:05.000

00:49:05.000 –> 00:49:15.000
You should not be at risk of, you know. Thank you might be under insurance or under saving for this building and they they really spent time whoever is on that building to put this together and make sure that the package was tied up really nicely with a bow.

00:49:15.000 –> 00:49:40.000
Okay. Plainness attorney for the estates. So, the settlement amount is confidential, but of the opinion, that it’s over 20 million dollars, most associations don’t have 20 million dollars of coverage.

00:49:40.000 –> 00:50:02.000
My understanding is that this association had a hundred 1 million. And the security companies had had insurance. So I think what you said just now is perfect for that building is if it’s possible to give accurate information.

00:50:02.000 –> 00:50:17.000
But that also says, the, there’s no reservation of rights, insure, will pay up to a hundred 1 million dollars.

00:50:17.000 –> 00:50:30.000
And that best gas is that this will settle for X. If we can do it, yeah, we wanna make, I think what you’re saying is, a great suggestion.

00:50:30.000 –> 00:50:42.000
So. Maybe each one of these buildings when it starts with something negative that a little bit more time has been saying, can the engineers give us or the attorneys give more assurance?

00:50:42.000 –> 00:50:53.000
Without us, over stepping out bounds and saying something that’s, false. But Boston is a great example.

00:50:53.000 –> 00:50:54.000

00:50:54.000 –> 00:51:01.000
And the good news on 2 to 4, you know, kind of minimum is they’re not subject to these changes by.

00:51:01.000 –> 00:51:04.000
But except for that there are some banks that are applying them anyway.

00:51:04.000 –> 00:51:07.000
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

00:51:07.000 –> 00:51:11.000
But you can’t be responsible for that.

00:51:11.000 –> 00:51:14.000
We can’t be responsible. Oh, we can’t.

00:51:14.000 –> 00:51:30.000
That these banks are not, I mean, we’ve, in this, this case, it was a new construction, but you know, the seller was acting shady from the beginning and they didn’t have a certificate of occupancy and they weren’t done with the project and says and said look we’re not funding the first unit in this building.

00:51:30.000 –> 00:51:35.000
So as one closes, then we’ll look at it again.

00:51:35.000 –> 00:51:48.000
Yeah, it’s There’s These, have questions that we don’t. Have.

00:51:48.000 –> 00:52:02.000
Answers. Or but I’m hoping that one of the things that’s coming up is Well, the FAMILIES, 70% of the market.

00:52:02.000 –> 00:52:14.000
What are other creative alternatives? And what’s come up recently, the VA isn’t very popular in Massachusetts, but condominiums, apparently because you can’t have things like rental research and other things associations want.

00:52:14.000 –> 00:52:31.000
But FAJ is possible. The other thing that’s possible is, look at the last item on the slide, Jake as a, a commercial space may not be more than 35% of the total square footage.

00:52:31.000 –> 00:52:54.000
That’s so arbitrary. I’d venture to guess that if you went to Brooklyn Bank or Rockland Trust or video or citizens And if they warehouse or put forward, if they keep loans, that whether it’s fix rate or 7 year adjustable rate mortgage.

00:52:54.000 –> 00:53:06.000
If there’s 50% commercial space. But everything is well funded, the budget’s good. There are no no structural defects.

00:53:06.000 –> 00:53:19.000
The local lenders may come into play here and Fanny wants to see they won’t take you off the black list until all repairs.

00:53:19.000 –> 00:53:35.000
I’m done. So for example, those banks such as, in Peak or at South Shore Bank or Video Bank or Brookline back, National Coopera Bank, that lends to condominium associations.

00:53:35.000 –> 00:53:43.000
So they’ll learn to the association to do. If the structural engineer says the 30 million dollars of repairs.

00:53:43.000 –> 00:53:51.000
If I’m guessing that, yeah, I think Danny. If they, engineer report is done.

00:53:51.000 –> 00:54:07.000
If follow contracts for the work are done and there’s a construction supervisor or an engineer. I think, they should learn that that point, not, when a hundred percent is completed.

00:54:07.000 –> 00:54:20.000
But I think I could make a very strong argument to friendly faces that bank such as proclaiming so sure in a video that holding onto these loans knowing that these contracts are in place.

00:54:20.000 –> 00:54:32.000
And then selling them to Fanny when they complete. The I think as possible. I think we have to get Creative.

00:54:32.000 –> 00:54:45.000
And they. The reason we wanted to have you on today is, I think you understand a little bit of or a lot about both sides of the equation.

00:54:45.000 –> 00:55:05.000
And upright and open to ideas and yeah, my hope is that we’re closer aligned than someday.

00:55:05.000 –> 00:55:24.000
Think and I’m not gonna say that there isn’t. a few experiences that you may have or maybe a particular kind of minimum attorney where, you want to close right away.

00:55:24.000 –> 00:55:53.000
The and the the kind of in maternity doesn’t doesn’t wanna help with that process and says for example on a 60 so you have a good well it’s 6 day 10 days at the written request so Oh, I guess my question for you since, this free for all didn’t turn into a brow and you’ve been very, very, very kind and

00:55:53.000 –> 00:56:08.000
restrained. So I know you can be fiery in court. as a zealous advocate for your clients is yeah for the initial discussion today.

00:56:08.000 –> 00:56:30.000
Are you? What your level of confidence. That’s the kind of minimum industry and the closing, industry from the real estate programs to the closing attorneys to the lenders, to get closer aligned on this if we, keep discussing the issues as they evolve.

00:56:30.000 –> 00:56:37.000
I think that’s the most important part if keep discussing the issues as they evolve. And I’ve suggested that.

00:56:37.000 –> 00:56:45.000
Relation to my landlord tenant practice to several tenant attorneys. It is probably along with the divorce bar and being the least friendly bar in the state.

00:56:45.000 –> 00:56:50.000
We don’t get along at all. We don’t say hi. We don’t smile at each other.

00:56:50.000 –> 00:57:06.000
It’s not nice. And I think that it takes work on both sides. To try to bring the issues up and come to the table and talk about them like this right now because We all have the same goal at the end of the day, you know, in the landlord contacts.

00:57:06.000 –> 00:57:10.000
We don’t, we want to keep people house. We don’t want to dishouse them in the condo context.

00:57:10.000 –> 00:57:19.000
We want people to be able to buy condos and we want people to be able to sell. I have a client right now who’s gonna be lifting our unit in a 4 unit building.

00:57:19.000 –> 00:57:27.000
They had a leak in February when everybody’s pipes broke. The insurance covered it and then cancelled them.

00:57:27.000 –> 00:57:36.000
And they had a lot of trouble and they still I don’t think they’ve been able to get full replacement coverage still to this day because of that one loss.

00:57:36.000 –> 00:57:51.000
And so I don’t know what’s gonna happen to that girl when she goes to sell. I don’t know if she’s gonna be able to, but when we at the practitioners work on ways that we can figure out ways to do things to help our clients to move things along.

00:57:51.000 –> 00:57:54.000
You know, coming to the table and talking about the issues definitely helps. Yes, absolutely.

00:57:54.000 –> 00:57:55.000
Good. Go ahead, Jake.

00:57:55.000 –> 00:58:04.000
I wanted a So I wanted to point out a quick question. Just.

00:58:04.000 –> 00:58:05.000

00:58:05.000 –> 00:58:10.000
Well, you only have 2 min because you talk so much on this webinar. You didn’t give Jordan and IA minute to talk.

00:58:10.000 –> 00:58:18.000
Here, as I’ve said before, you can fire me, Jake, but I can make you do time out still.

00:58:18.000 –> 00:58:19.000

00:58:19.000 –> 00:58:23.000
Yeah, I know, my bad. Yeah, yeah, I got it, got it. Anyways, we got a question.

00:58:23.000 –> 00:58:25.000
What should an associate? I wanted to get to this before the hour. What should an association do?

00:58:25.000 –> 00:58:34.000
If they learn they have been placed on the secret blacklist. I’ll take a step further.

00:58:34.000 –> 00:58:42.000
Even if you suspect or you are curious if your association or if you’re a property manager, your associations are on the blacklist.

00:58:42.000 –> 00:58:53.000
We would suggest contacting our firm or us directly and kind of, you know, just, just see.

00:58:53.000 –> 00:59:01.000
We can check if you’re on the black list to take it.

00:59:01.000 –> 00:59:02.000
Oh yeah, you can go to a website too.com. And there should be a blacklist section.

00:59:02.000 –> 00:59:11.000
I believe the website has You plug in. You Say, you plug in the name of your condominium and the city and state.

00:59:11.000 –> 00:59:29.000
And, we did one. In Indiana with a person had no idea. So I think something’s up, things have been weird, I’m a kind of, kind of, a condominium board member and, Indiana, what can you find out?

00:59:29.000 –> 00:59:52.000
And we looked at the list and it gives the reason for each the why they’re ineligible and on this one it was 4 units per town and when we let her know that she said yeah we had a casualty loss.

00:59:52.000 –> 00:59:58.000
And, the, we’re fighting with State Farm and the 4 units have not been rebuilt.

00:59:58.000 –> 01:00:08.000
And yeah. Yeah, but at least at that point they knew. Why they’re on the list.

01:00:08.000 –> 01:00:20.000
So I prefer for VDMA to be transparent. And just let the world not somebody asked a question on This chat earlier would say something like.

01:00:20.000 –> 01:00:21.000
Oh, 5 pound, am I gonna be incarcerated as I posted on social media.

01:00:21.000 –> 01:00:46.000
Well, am I gonna be incarcerated? If I posted it on social media, well, marketing wise, you may not want to do that, but no, this isn’t a edict from the government that they’ll imprison you if you give out the information.

01:00:46.000 –> 01:01:02.000
It’s a deal that Fanny and Fredd have with the lenders that they shall not disclose the information.

01:01:02.000 –> 01:01:14.000

01:01:14.000 –> 01:01:15.000

01:01:15.000 –> 01:01:17.000
Based on a confidentiality agreement and non-disclosure agreements. But it was a you as a unit, but you as a you as a unit or if you find your own list you can tell anybody you want because once you know the reason That’s the only time where you can start to try to fix it.

01:01:17.000 –> 01:01:18.000
Doesn’t do anything.

01:01:18.000 –> 01:01:19.000
And yeah.

01:01:19.000 –> 01:01:30.000
I think that, somebody named Paul asked an interesting question that I kind of agree with are these questions just probing questions simply a method to move liability to the board who makes statement they’re not qualified to make.

01:01:30.000 –> 01:01:37.000
I agree and I think that that’s a big concern is that are the people answering these questions really qualified to answer them anyway.

01:01:37.000 –> 01:01:42.000
And what’s the bank gonna do? Later about that. Are they gonna come after them? You know, there’s no.

01:01:42.000 –> 01:01:50.000
Okay. Yeah, here’s my concern. If the local lender sells the tanning.

01:01:50.000 –> 01:02:06.000
Off Friday and family. Yeah, does the toilet of particular lines? And see is that she the local lander that the serviceer should not have sold this to us.

01:02:06.000 –> 01:02:12.000
Let’s say it’s a $800,000 loan. I think the conforming limits for Fannie Mae for Boston or Boston proper or 828,000.

01:02:12.000 –> 01:02:33.000
The lender or they can make lender by the long back. And if the lender then sees that a questionnaire was filled out saying Just because they thought it was the answer that the seller and buyer would want.

01:02:33.000 –> 01:02:41.000
Oh, of course, there are no structural issues. I’ve been there I can’t imagine how many boards are filling out these forms.

01:02:41.000 –> 01:02:57.000
Without asking any attorney or manager and filling the man as good neighbors. Yeah, to give the answers that they think the lender will want so that the person can sell a unit and the buyer can buy.

01:02:57.000 –> 01:03:14.000
But if you put no issues, and then in the 12 months of board meetings, there are horror stories about, about the, by concern is that the lender that has to buy the loan back.

01:03:14.000 –> 01:03:16.000
Could gun for the association. To reimburse it for what it cost to buy loan loan back.

01:03:16.000 –> 01:03:42.000
So up to 828,000 Boston itself. And then for giving false information to a, federally chatted bank, I think, haven’t looked at in a long time, but it was something like 3 years in prison and a fine of up to a million dollars.

01:03:42.000 –> 01:03:59.000
So that’s what has. These volunteer unpaid board members so nervous is. All they have is liability, which goes back to.

01:03:59.000 –> 01:04:16.000
My introduction, which is. Yeah, should board members reconsider as to whether they it’s too dangerous in 2023.

01:04:16.000 –> 01:04:17.000
Yeah, and so I I think the big thing is yeah, it’s important to

01:04:17.000 –> 01:04:21.000
To be a board member because now the issues of millions of dollars. And Oh, we’re going over.

01:04:21.000 –> 01:04:27.000
Yep, yeah, well, you only spoke 2 min this whole thing, Stephen. So.

01:04:27.000 –> 01:04:32.000
No, no, I, it was paying for my, muting myself.

01:04:32.000 –> 01:04:38.000
No, but I was just gonna say from the beginning, filling out the questionnaire, it’s important to consult with experts, attorneys, make sure you gather as much information as you can.

01:04:38.000 –> 01:04:53.000
It’s important to do that. If you’re curious if you’re on a black list, I have left the, a link to our Fannie Mae Blacklist.

01:04:53.000 –> 01:05:05.000
Kind of resource for our website. You can also reach out to us directly. If you find out you’re on the black list it varies on how we’re going to handle it to get you off the black list.

01:05:05.000 –> 01:05:19.000
And as I went back to the slide, what my lenders look for, depending, or this is what documents actually, but what might, what might be reasons you get put on the black list and it could be as we’ve discussed throughout this.

01:05:19.000 –> 01:05:26.000
Webinar, you know, either structural inspections, litigation, reserve inadequate reserves, different reasons.

01:05:26.000 –> 01:05:31.000
So it’s going to depend on what the specific reason is and it’ll be case by case.

01:05:31.000 –> 01:05:42.000
And that’s kind of where we’ll address it and figure out the best way to navigate your specific situation.

01:05:42.000 –> 01:05:43.000
On that.

01:05:43.000 –> 01:05:47.000
And some can’t be resolved, for example, condo hotels. kind of tells or not, eligible for, loans.

01:05:47.000 –> 01:05:57.000
So if you’re a condominium hotel or condo tell us. Jake, yeah, calls them and I think the rest of the world.

01:05:57.000 –> 01:06:27.000
We’re not likely to be able to get you off the blacklist. Because We can’t change you from being a hotel to not being a hotel, but there are, some issues even with, potential structural issues, if it ends up on a home wise or condo search questionnaire.

01:06:28.000 –> 01:06:50.000
And then nobody updated it and the issue was addressed. that would be the, the road to correcting that or if not, finding a, coming up with the plan for how it’s going to be addressed.

01:06:50.000 –> 01:06:58.000
Trying to convince a local lander to warehouse alone until the repairs were done. And then sell them to Tanni.

01:06:58.000 –> 01:07:19.000
So I, I think all of us have to get, get creative. juddana just gave her email and it’s also gonna be on the PowerPoint that will send you all, Jake, have you, cut and pasted all the chat and questions and answers because I haven’t looked at any of them.

01:07:19.000 –> 01:07:26.000
I will. Yeah, we got several questions and yeah, this was a very important topic. So we had a lot to cover.

01:07:26.000 –> 01:07:33.000
Sorry if we didn’t get to your specific question, but as we mentioned, we will be sending an email.

01:07:33.000 –> 01:07:44.000
Out to everyone who attended or who even signed up and we will get you our kind of answers to those questions.

01:07:44.000 –> 01:07:48.000
But yeah, no, I think what this was useful, we thank you very much, Jordan, for taking the time on a Friday morning.

01:07:48.000 –> 01:07:54.000
I’m sure there’s more fun things you could be doing. But you’re here with us.

01:07:54.000 –> 01:07:57.000
Like preparing for a jury trial? No, that’s not fun at all.

01:07:57.000 –> 01:08:02.000
Good point. Yeah, that sounds a lot worse. And you’re right in the courtroom already.

01:08:02.000 –> 01:08:04.000
So it looks like you’re already preparing. So, yeah, no, we definitely appreciate it.

01:08:04.000 –> 01:08:10.000
Was a good topic, good conversation. And yeah.

01:08:10.000 –> 01:08:24.000
We did a, Things a little different on this one, more interactive. So we have our opinions and maybe they’re all 3 of us have different ones.

01:08:24.000 –> 01:08:30.000
But, if you have the second to put in the chat, cause this is our tenth.

01:08:30.000 –> 01:08:47.000
Of doing these, that you like the interactive, or hated it or suggestions for future webinars.

01:08:47.000 –> 01:08:57.000
We would love to to have you take the attendees to take a couple of minutes, before we sign off.

01:08:57.000 –> 01:09:05.000
And we appreciate that you’ve stayed on for, 70, 70 min.

01:09:05.000 –> 01:09:07.000

01:09:07.000 –> 01:09:15.000
Yeah, good thing we don’t run a television station. Other than when the NFL games mess up 60 min.

01:09:15.000 –> 01:09:20.000
Yeah, Taylor Swift shows up and then they show that the whole game. We could have done that instead.

01:09:20.000 –> 01:09:21.000
But no luck here.

01:09:21.000 –> 01:09:24.000
Hi thought she was in the back.

01:09:24.000 –> 01:09:29.000
She’s here around here. Yeah, she’s, that’s why I had to hide my, move it this way.

01:09:29.000 –> 01:09:30.000
Who are you talking about?

01:09:30.000 –> 01:09:33.000
Taylor Swift.

01:09:33.000 –> 01:09:36.000
Oh, okay. It’s,

01:09:36.000 –> 01:09:38.000
Will be the encore presentation.

01:09:38.000 –> 01:09:46.000
Yeah, she’s yeah She did something very smart with that. 1989 Taylor version.

01:09:46.000 –> 01:10:01.000
Yeah, I guess you can sold the rights. To songs from back then And so somebody else on them and she remixed them.

01:10:01.000 –> 01:10:14.000
And, made a fortune, but it seems like she’s making. Of watching no matter what she does and she seems like a pleasant enough person to, so, good for her.

01:10:14.000 –> 01:10:26.000
So, I think Jake’s trying to get her on for the December. We might have a sing along, for those, who, who want to attend.

01:10:26.000 –> 01:10:35.000
Actually, I don’t know what next month is going to be for some reason I think it’s gonna be.

01:10:35.000 –> 01:10:49.000
A little more about insurance and family and Freddie and FAJ and local lenders and maybe with movement, Is that the name, Jake?

01:10:49.000 –> 01:11:07.000
Yeah, yeah, that’s a possibility. We’re still, we’re still working out the kinks on that, but, we’re looking forward to exciting December to the holiday version so I’m sure we’ll be Stephen will be we’ll have his yamaka and Santa hat.

01:11:07.000 –> 01:11:22.000
Absolutely. So, happy Thanksgiving and, hope to, See you all Oh, on the first or second Friday of December, Janet, I can’t thank you enough.

01:11:22.000 –> 01:11:33.000
I think, this is invaluable having you on. And for us to hear.

01:11:33.000 –> 01:11:42.000
I’m just gonna give away a little secret if you are an attorney. And you need to contact Steve on the weekend.

01:11:42.000 –> 01:11:43.000

01:11:43.000 –> 01:11:44.000
He does answer the phone on the weekends. But not for clients, just lawyers.

01:11:44.000 –> 01:11:52.000
It’s Yeah, my, yeah. Now my cell phone is (781) 413-5226.

01:11:52.000 –> 01:11:55.000
And, every The thing I mentioned is outdated, but, so this one will be as well.

01:11:55.000 –> 01:12:06.000
I’m like the, repair man. Just waiting for, for calls and nobody calls me.

01:12:06.000 –> 01:12:25.000
So, call me anytime to, talk about lessons in chemistry, West, other books, dealing fire, or, maybe not the patriots, this year.

01:12:25.000 –> 01:12:26.000
Not this here. They’re in Germany this week at 2.

01:12:26.000 –> 01:12:36.000
Okay, but also is in Miami, so, we might have to start liking, the, dolphins if, Okay, all right.

01:12:36.000 –> 01:12:39.000
Oh, no way, not happening. Yeah.

01:12:39.000 –> 01:12:53.000
Excellent. Thanks so much. Have a great weekend.


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