The Marcus Hour | 5.17.24 | Ep. 15 | Board Members: Legislation to Look Out For in Board Positions in 2024 and Beyond

Oftentimes, Condo/HOA Board Members are known to be serving in a thankless and challenging position while they seek to best manage the affairs of their association while being exposed to fiduciary responsibility.  And, in many jurisdictions, we are observing increased Board Member requirements from educational mandates to overall involvement.  While adding more stringent measures for Board members may improve the overall functionality of the Associations, there are a number of items to look out for with these changes.

Join Stephen Marcus and Jake Marcus for an insightful Marcus Hour exploring the evolving landscape of Condo/HOA Board members’ anticipated responsibility as our panel discusses Board best practices and what we envision the future of Board responsibility may look like, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And you can figure out.

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Jake Marcus: Alright. Good morning, everyone.

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Jake Marcus: We’re gonna start allowing some participants in or all participants in

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Jake Marcus: our attendees, I should say because we have a lot to get to this morning.

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Jake Marcus: looks like people are starting to populate in, and it’ll just be Steven and I today for the fifteenth edition of the Marcus Hour. This should be an exciting one

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Jake Marcus: a very informative and jam packed session. We’ve it’s it’s really a lot of important stuff that we’re gonna get to

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Jake Marcus: from board member participation to property property manager involvement

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Jake Marcus: and everything in between and a lot of updates that even if it’s not legislation right now, what we will see in the in the next few years. And what we kind of expect in 2024 and beyond

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Jake Marcus: so as people start to populate in let’s just get right to it.

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Jake Marcus: I’m gonna get the

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Jake Marcus: slideshow going

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Jake Marcus: so let me share my screen.

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Jake Marcus: and I’m going to hit

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Jake Marcus: start slideshow. So welcome to the fifteenth edition of the Marcus hour. We appreciate all of you attending today.

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Jake Marcus: We are all cock and Marcus a full service condominium Hoa Community Association law firm located in Braintree, Massachusetts. We also have a new office in in Miami, Florida.

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Jake Marcus: and we practice in Massachusetts Florida, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Maine and we have been doing the Marcus hour

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Jake Marcus: now we have been doing it now now it’s our fifteenth edition. So we’ve been doing it for over a year.

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Jake Marcus: So it looks like we are both here. We don’t have a we don’t have a guest today. So you only have the the 2. Marcus’s myself, Jake, Marcus

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Jake Marcus: and we have my comrade, Steven, Marcus Steven. Anything you’d like to add before we get going.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Is this for my 7 min, or is that coming up.

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Jake Marcus: It’s coming up.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay, I’m a little under the weather today. So I think it’s the pollen but.

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Jake Marcus: Allergies have been crazy. I’m starting

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Jake Marcus: some of the pollen collect on my car.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But I’ll count on you to carry the the row the biggest, or whatever the expression is.

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Jake Marcus: I’ll I’ll I’ll try my best. So yes. So we we today are going to get to some pretty important topics. And I wanted to point out before we get started. As always, none of this is supposed to be legal advice. If you have specific questions to your association to your particular set of facts.

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Jake Marcus: Not every, even if it sounds like the same situation. Make sure you contact your council attorney, go through the the topics involved. See what the updates are as far as legislation. We we try to stay ahead of the curve on all of it.

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Jake Marcus: We do a lot of what I will discuss today is supposed to be guidance. Best practices, not again, not legal advice. And the reason I say that especially for today’s is because a lot of this is

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Jake Marcus: about to be law in Florida. As it relates to board members and property managers and cams. And I think

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Jake Marcus: the biggest thing to look for out of these new updates legislatively is that even if they aren’t the law in Massachusetts. It gives good a good indication of what you need to do in following your requirements as a board member. You have fiduciary duty as a board member and I’m speaking to board members A. A. And and speaking of that, I do want to share a couple of poll questions. Just so we know who, where.

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Jake Marcus: who we’re who we have as a participant today. It’s always good to have that information.

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Jake Marcus: So I’m gonna I’m gonna launch. What is your involvement with Condominiums board member property manager, vendor council attorney or other.

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Jake Marcus: And I’m seeing people start to vote. Thank you for participating

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Jake Marcus: this kind of helps us get an idea. I’m seeing mostly board members. So yes, this is a very important subject today for board members.

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Jake Marcus: It’s not supposed to scare you off, because, again, it’s not the law yet in, or some of the jurisdictions that we practice in or any of the jurisdictions essentially so that is and and also to that end, I actually wanna I would do wanna send what state you work in? Just so we have that as well.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And and what we can do in that future ones is, I know there are some

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: attorneys on call from different parts of the country and local, and there are some insurance agents on the call from different parts of the country and local.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and there are some insurance carriers.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: or and or managing general agents on the call

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: from all over the country.

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Jake Marcus: We already got a great question to the property. Managers. Have any fiduciary responsibilities? Technically, no.

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Jake Marcus: But

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Jake Marcus: as a employee or or or a a someone who works on behalf of the association. Those are generally the paid employees

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Jake Marcus: who are running the operations of the associations so different different kind of requirement. And the other thing is, even if they don’t have a fertiary responsibility. We do see cams have a th. There’s certain requirements that will be added in certain certain standards that cams have to meet so.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: There are also with the management agreement with State laws.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: There are contractual liabilities, and their statutory liabilities.

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Jake Marcus: Correct and I’m I’m gonna just send one more poll. Just so we know what states we’re in.

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Jake Marcus: So feel free to answer that Massachusetts, Florida, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine. Other

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Jake Marcus: looks like mostly Massachusetts

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Jake Marcus: which makes sense so.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And I know at least one of the managers

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Great Great North, as in

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Massachusetts and New Hampshire, and maybe a few of the others are as well.

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Jake Marcus: Okay.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And some of them might be in Rhode Island as well.

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Jake Marcus: Yep.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So I’m assuming that people are answering where they’re mainly

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: managing properties. If their property manages all of their board members, that managing what state they’re condominium, isn’t.

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Jake Marcus: Right? So so the the question was, what state do you work in? It does look like mostly Massachusetts. We have a mishmash from other States. In in, mostly in New England, and other

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Jake Marcus: and yeah, so it could it it could be. If you’re an insurance agent, you could be servicing multiple. But thank you for answering those questions.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Do you have? Do you have that third poll question, Jake.

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Jake Marcus: Yeah, I was gonna do that on the next slide.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay.

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Jake Marcus: So what I what I kinda wanted to point out

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Jake Marcus: is that a a lot of this may not be the law right now. It’s not again what we provide as a legal advice. But this is important information to realize what you need to do as far as potential educational requirements going forward record keeping you know, ensuring that you’re complying with fiduciary duty, ensuring that you’re complying with. And I see someone mentioned in the Chat

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Jake Marcus: property manager code of ethics. And a lot of the the. What we talk about today is what

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Jake Marcus: the new requirements based on some developments in in, in multiple jurisdictions board members legislation to look out for in board, in board positions, in 2024 and beyond.

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Jake Marcus: I wanna kinda just discuss the backdrop before we get into the program. And why we’re here. Why, there are heightened requirements. Why, there are more strict penalties. As far as regulation transparency a. A. And, I think a a recurring theme in today’s session will be

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Jake Marcus: more transparency from board members or property managers, in dealing with contracts, in dealing with financial records, and providing financial records and Pra and and and allowing inspections of the of the books, and everything in between and let me just get into the backdrop

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Jake Marcus: before we get going, and I’m going to hand it over to you in a minute, Stephen.

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Jake Marcus: The surf side Champlain Towers collapse. This was a 12 story beachfront property coincidentally in Florida. That

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Jake Marcus: unfortunately, resulted in the death of 98 people.

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Jake Marcus: This

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Jake Marcus: pretty much just flipped the condo world upside down a lot of everyone, everything has been changed since June of 2021 after the surf side, Champlain Towers collapse it it it basically changed everything from structural integrity inspections to reserve requirements. For example, in the State of Florida there are requirements to have a structural inspection statutorally.

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Jake Marcus: By the end of this year. Or the the the

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Jake Marcus: It. It it is in the statute, in, in, in the Florida Condo act and it also reserve requirements, is also in the in the Condo Act.

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Jake Marcus: That is probably foreshadowing what will happen in other jurisdictions. And what I mean by that is, we will likely see

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Jake Marcus: structural integrity inspections, especially on

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Jake Marcus: in coastal areas. you know, along the shoreline closer to the water. Just because of the the the nuances with having to ensure that everything is is up to code. And

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Jake Marcus: basically it’s to ensure that nothing like surfside ever happens again. Same with reserve requirements. Making sure you have the the funds available

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Jake Marcus: to expend money to invest in

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Jake Marcus: upgrading anything that’s not up to par.

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Jake Marcus: And and basically, yeah, this affected everything from

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Jake Marcus: lending to yeah, structural integrity and reserves but also insurance, which Stephen will get to in a minute. One more topic I wanna mention is the hammocks Ho Embezzlement case

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Jake Marcus: again. This happened in Florida. But this was the biggest Florida hoa and the Board members, and and again the the the word of caution that comes out today. The fact that there are potential now criminal repercussions in the statute in Florida, and could carry its way to other jurisdictions is not to say that? Oh, just because no like this was a significant

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Jake Marcus: operation. They they were embezzling allegedly embezzling massive amounts of money in the steel scheme. The the Hoa is now in receivership.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Was Jacob. I could interrupt the was the ceiling by the cause. I’ve seen both.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: was this tailing by the a board member with treasurer, or was it by the management company.

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Jake Marcus: It was by 4 board members, and I believe, a brother of A. Of the President.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay. So people have to know that it’s not just management companies who could take funds that board members also typically have check writing authority could come up with fake employees could do do other things. And it typically happens over a period of years, and it goes on

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: under unnoticed. In Massachusetts we have a good

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: well, our recommendation in Massachusetts is based on statute is to get fidelity insurance naming the manager as designated agent on your own policy, otherwise the principles of the Management Company uncovered under the fidelity. But Massachusetts says, an amount of at least 3 months assessments.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Our recommendation is an amount equal to

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the most funds you ever have on hand. So, for example, if you have a million dollars in reserves.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and your budget is 1.2 million a year 3 months. The minimum in Massachusetts would be 300,000.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Our suggestion is, if you have a million over that ensure for fairly short dollars by the 1.3 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: naming the manager as designated agents and obligor under the Fidelity Insurance.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Sorry friends, Robin.

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Jake Marcus: You. It’s the Marcus hour, not just the Jake Marcus hour. You know that Steven.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Thank you, Jake.

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Jake Marcus: So I, I’m just gonna get a little bit more into the backdrop because I find the hammocks case in Florida, especially enlightening because we now have W. What is currently in the Governor’s desk to sign, probably by July first of this year in Florida.

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Jake Marcus: and and and and and look. The reason I keep saying Florida, is because, be when it happens there, we will generally see it navigate to other jurisdictions, including New England. A a. And everywhere in between

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Jake Marcus: and and and look. The the Hamex case really struck a chord with communities. Because you know it. There are we? We get plenty of clients or unit owners who reach out, and they have suspicion, or they suspect that boards are engaging at fraud, engaging in kickbacks, engaging in self dealing not to the extent of hammocks. But, as Steven mentioned, it happens slowly over time.

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Jake Marcus: And usually you know the the biggest thing that we see with what unit owners are able to do

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Jake Marcus: is kind of hopefully grouped. If if something is happening if there is suspicion, if there is indeed kickback self dealing conflicts of interest with contracts that. And and this goes with the property managers.

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Jake Marcus: you know, if if there’s a conflict of interest in a contract that you enter into with a service provider there is now, gonna be statute that a and again in Florida, but could go into other States, and some kind of a best practice ensure that conflict of interest are being disclosed before entering into a contract. Now, the issue now

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Jake Marcus: is, let’s say, a derivative action is brought by unit owners against board members

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Jake Marcus: the letter can only go so far, or you know, even the other, like 3 board members, think one another board member is not paying their fees or not or potentially taking some of the money.

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Jake Marcus: that only has so much strength and and litigation and attorneys. Fees are going to cost money borne by the unit owners and the other board members, and and it’s just chaotic. So I do think, in a way, even though it sounds scary. A lot of this new legislation is good, and that’s why I think it’s good to to start kind of engaging in more best practices.

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Jake Marcus: to ensure that there’s more transparency in the boards more transparency with the the property managers that you hire. The the, you know a as far as a a I think a best practice would be a property manager who’s terminated sometimes. It can be a kind of that that comes with its own kind of set of issues. because it can be, you know, a a hostile or or not to

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Jake Marcus: not. Not a not a great divorce it. It. I I think what Florida has is, it’ll be 20 days. They have to provide all the records within or 20 days of termination. They have to provide all provide all the records that they possess or control back to the Association. And that kind of goes to a lot of what we’re gonna get into

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Jake Marcus: keeping up making sure the financials are transparent. And just because, you know, there’s a lot of suspicion in in, in associations a a and and and that’s kind of the thing we wanna get to today.

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Jake Marcus: The result is more requirements for volunteer board members, property managers and other professionals. In notifying owners of certain things, educational requirements for board members and property managers and and and and and really just

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Jake Marcus: transparency and regulation and we’re gonna see a lot more of that. And the increased responsibility of the board members

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Jake Marcus: beyond the fiduciary duty as well as managers. And we wanna kind of get into best practices.

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Jake Marcus: One thing that we are gonna get to next

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Jake Marcus: is, you know, what are the other factors that led to this

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Jake Marcus: technology. The technology boom has definitely led to that. And that goes into the electronic voting.

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Jake Marcus: I want to mention one thing

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Jake Marcus: Florida enacted virtual, or in their statute there is a provision related to virtual meetings

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Jake Marcus: or electronic voting virtual meetings.

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Jake Marcus: And they’re also going to be new requirements for websites of hoas and condos. I think that is a good practice. Have a website. Be able to upload your documents, be completely transparent. It’s one thing to record with the State, and you can say that the unit owners and everyone in the community is on notice.

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Jake Marcus: But I think to a better extent. If you have a website that only your unit owners can log into. That is a good practice a A. And there’s so many software companies coming out. We I was just in Las Vegas for Cai National met a lot of vendors who have software

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Jake Marcus: to complete the electronic voting to do the virtual meetings to ensure ensure the website looks good. So that that’s kind of an important area that I kinda just wanted to note. Technology is a is a big reason for this, and it allows the transparency.

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Jake Marcus: That said, make sure you’re you’re you’re able to.

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Jake Marcus: If you do email, if you mail, if you’re allowed to. Make sure you do both email and mail. Just so it’s the notice is is sufficiently sufficiently out there. So that’s kind of the trends. I do want to

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Jake Marcus: push it to Steven. Who wants to? Really, who who is gonna really discuss an even more important area in this.

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Jake Marcus: and I think that is the the insurance aspects.

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Jake Marcus: And that’s kind of something that’s been

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Jake Marcus: a big, a big topic across the nation. So, Steven, I’ll I’ll hand the mic to you.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Thank you. Jk, I need like 7 min. And it’s not just insurance. It’s as important to more important is liability. But I also see that there was a question in Massachusetts. Can management companies get kickbacks? Find his face? The answer is, the statute says they cannot. However, in some cases manages have become insurance agents, and they’re splitting insurance commissions on master policies

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: or the real estate agents and collecting brokers commissions or splitting brokers. Commissions that should be fully disclosed. But

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Jake Marcus: Even, can I just launch the the insurance coverage?

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Jake Marcus: I’m gonna launch a insurance covers questions, take a look.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay, if yeah, why don’t we have people answer this, and then I’ll

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: do my thing.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So the question is.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and it’s a combination. How much general comprehensive general liability

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and directors and offices

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: in umbrella coverage over those 2 insurances does your association have? Or, if you manage associations? Does your typical association have.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay. So saying, are you staying, Abby?

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Jake Marcus: Are you seeing it, Steven?

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yes.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: it’s still.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: There’s only 19 people responding.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So 4 at a million, 4 atom 2 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: 8 are at 5,000,002 are at 10 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: One is that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: 25 million?

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Now, unfortunately.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I’m going to

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: scare you, and I think, with

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: 3 items, or one particular item, but 3 in. Total, that I’m gonna guess that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: you have never heard all of the information that I’m gonna say in the last in the next 7 min. So if you already knew everything that I said after I say it.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: If you could put in the QA. On the chat, I knew all that. Great if you don’t, you don’t have to. But I’m guessing most board members don’t know this, and probably most managers don’t.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So The question starts easy, which is

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: as board members. You volunteers. You wanna meet neighbors you moved in. You talk to them at the pool. do you see any liability

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: acting as trustees?

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Do you have any concerns about potential liability?

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Jake Marcus: Let me let me let me let me do raise your hand cause we we do have that feature with the technology.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yeah, Jake, Jay, Jake, I’m doing

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that. I I’m gonna be giving like

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: 3 points. So

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I I wanna know if everybody is doing all of them.

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Jake Marcus: Go ahead!

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So so when you’re answering is the the first thing I have is, do you have any concerns about liability? Serving as a board member.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And then the typical answer we get is.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: No, well, why not? Well, because there’s insurance, we’re told.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and we’re indemnified

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the Internet owners.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And that is all true.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I’m gonna take it back to May fifth, 2,017,

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and in a condominium of South Boston, 2 engaged doctors, Boston doctors in the pet house unit.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: or

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: tortured and murdered by a former security

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: person or concierge person at the Condominium

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the people sued with the board, the manager and the 2 management and the 2 security companies.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: this was May 2,017.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yeah, I’m I’m told

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: several years ago. I believe it was that the association incredibly had

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: a hundred 1 million dollars of umbrella liability, and I believe a hundred 1 million dollars of dno liability, but this would have been a comprehensive general liability because it resulted in bottle injury and death.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: if you have a million dollars of insurance or 2 million or 5 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: What happens if there’s a judgment.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: as in the sales case, it’s confidential, so we don’t know for certain. But I’m pretty confident that it’s it settled for over 20 million dollars in 2023.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So 6 years 6 years later.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: if you had 1 million of insurance or 5 million 20 million dollars

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: judgment.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Where does the other 15 million come from?

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And the first answer is, gonna be, well, the judgment is gonna be against the trustees, if it’s a Massachusetts, even if it’s a trust.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and then it’s oh, wait a second. We’re indemnified. That’s only as good as how much insurance you have.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: because in Massachusetts

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the limit of liability is endless. So, in other words, if you have to assess the unit owners for 15 million dollar shortfall.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Then

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the defect the the plaintiffs can seek the 15 million dollars from, let’s say, the 50 unit owners who owned you enough according to their percentage interest.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: The that does not give me a whole lot of comfort. And

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: yeah,

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I think on that one. If up to this point everything that I said.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: You’re fully aware of that, and do this before. right in the chat, or or or raise your hands. If Jake can watch

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: as to that, you already knew all that.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: because it seems to me that if you knew all that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the 1 million dollars that Fannie Mae has had since 1979. At 1 point they flipped it up to 3 million, the one back to 1 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: but is woefully inadequate.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: They don’t talk about directors and offices insurance at all. And even for Co. Ops family requires 3 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So my concern is that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: post serve side, which ended up with a 1.2 billion will be 1 million dollar settlement among 37 bodies. And after the sales case until Boston. That settled in 2023 for what we believe was over 20 million dollars. There’s reason to be to be afraid.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And one of the questions, I would say is, in addition, here’s your homework.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I’d like everybody who’s on this

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: webinar who’s a board member or managing agent

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: to

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: have your managing agent or on your own. Talk to your insurance agent

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and get a quote. Don’t bind it, but get a quote, for let’s say, a 10 million dollar policy over. And this is important over both your comprehensive general liability and your directors and offices liability.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: because it’s generally fairly small dollars

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: for each additional 1 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and I can’t tell you that the right answer is 10 million or 25 or 50 or 100 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I can tell you that 1 million or 2 million these days

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: is way too low.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: There’s another problem.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: some even good directors and offices, liability policies at least 6 months ago, but maybe they’ve changed it now.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: in the fine, Trent.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: for a 2 million dollar policy for the board

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: in the fine print.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: The Management company coverage was only for a million, no matter what.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and I’m not sure a whole lot of board members, or even managers, understand that. But check that out with your agent to make sure that the manager has the same amount of coverage, because the managers gonna get named just because they’re in the wrong place at the wrong time. They’re gonna get sued because of the they’re the manager in addition to the board.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and then ask your agent about the the what’s called legal fees within the limits or outside the limits.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So if you have a case from May 2,017, and the settles in 2023.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Good chance that there were. Oh, I I believe

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that there were probably about 2 million dollars legal phase based on ours worked

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I guess my

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: question is, how many of you are aware

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the some d and O policies

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: to docked

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the amount of legal fees from the coverage. So if you have a million dollar policy and you have 2 million dollars in legal phase

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that’s paid by the insurer.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the insurers pay the limits of the policy

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: my concern is, I’m not sure how many of you know that.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and I’m not saying that you should run out

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and resign from the board.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: but it’s starting to become a question.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: The other thing that I did. I used to have a an agent to Brady and Shercon, minimum agent who passed away. Bernie Gitlin, is my personal agent, and because I was on nonprofit boards

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I had a 5 million or 2, or I have 5 million or a 10 million dollar umbrella policy on my personal insurance.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Because of concern as to what protections we put homestead protections on houses. We do other things, because

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: post

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the 2 surgeons and post surf site.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: there’s risk that somehow we’ve been lucky to avoid over the past 40 years.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And I’m concerned that it can’t be. What are the chances that would happen to us if you think that right? You wouldn’t have any insurance.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So I’m trying to get back to

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Jake because I’m losing my voice. And but if if that I’d prefer it be in chat. But if if anybody knew all of that could you type, even if it’s anonymously, we already knew all that.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and if you don’t type that I’ll assume that you didn’t, and I hope

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that will be of some some value in terms of this webinar.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Now, back to Jake on the main topic.

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Jake Marcus: Absolutely well, I mean it. It is it is important and and very important topics that that you got to today, or or what you just discussed in the.

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Jake Marcus: and I’ll let you get to. I think there are some questions.

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Jake Marcus: so I think that that that is useful to kind of take a look at insurance

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Jake Marcus: is kind of, I I think, with a lot of issues we talk about.

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Jake Marcus: The underlying insurance is is is kind of an important aspect to be aware of. And again, do you know, is super important and that kind of ties right into what we’re discussing today, as far as board members and and their requirements and and the the heightened fiduciary responsibility and I do want to just share the the also the the majority of

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Jake Marcus: answers were 5 million dollars or below we we received.

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Jake Marcus: Mostly. Yeah. Most answers were 5 million

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Jake Marcus: for how much general liability and dno and umbrella

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Jake Marcus: next was 2 million, and then 1 million and then we got a couple of answers as to 10 million. 25 million.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: There. There are only 3 total.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: There were 2 at 10 million, and there was one at 25 million.

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Jake Marcus: That’s correct. So so I think that’s just just an important and and.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And and I am, and I hit the share button. So I hopefully, people can see the results as well.

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Jake Marcus: Excellent. Yeah. So so that so that is a a very important topic, and something that

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Jake Marcus: it’s it’s a crisis everywhere. It’s a, it’s a tricky area, and and something that that that needs to be really considered and and and and and definitely to something that you don’t want to short out on

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And and and one final comment is because of

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Serp side and cases like

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the fields case out of South Boston

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and wildfires and hurricanes in Florida

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: with a insurer last resort. Citizens. The State fair plans, I’m sure, became

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the insurer first resort. Premiums have skyrocketed agents are frantically trying to layer even property damage coverages because carriers are getting scared of a very large property damage risk.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: They’re excluding Wildfire. They’re ensuring Bruce that actual cash value which doesn’t apply with Fannie Mae. So Danny May and Freddie Mac requirements or guidelines, and what insurance carries are doing

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: is hitting a wall and I know the insurance industry has reached out to put a pause

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: on what’s going on in the insurance market. So more liability and tougher to get insurance for 100 replacement cost and for all the potential liability that you could have, this is also layered liability policies where carriers this year on the risk. it’s sort of the perfect storm.

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Jake Marcus: Yep. Oh, yeah, I I think a lot of a lot of issues that are occurring are are the perfect financial storm. As far as yeah. I mean, insurance is the biggest is is the backbone of all of it. And that goes right into lending. You know, the requirements of

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Jake Marcus: keeping up with structural integrity reserve requirements everything in between. But I wanna get into the the, what we, what we’re gonna really delve into is what what board requirements are changing, what what you already have fiduciary duty?

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Jake Marcus: As a board member

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Jake Marcus: that’s different than a property manager who’s usually a a. The paid employee to handle and manage the operations of the Board and Association as a whole. So what we’re seeing, and this is again directly related to surfside the hammocks. Embezzlement case.

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Jake Marcus: The board requirements. I I one of the biggest things I want to point out is, and I mentioned it earlier. Transparency, but transparency with

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Jake Marcus: Records, maintenance and request compliance so what what we’ll see as far as best practice and guidance. And again, not specific legal advice is for board members to properly maintain and provide condo records.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Jake and I stop you one more time. I apologize. Just the caps to summarize

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: for posting chat one was. I’ve I’ve learned some valuable information today somebody else didn’t know about all that about insurance and no, I didn’t know all of this. But then, one of my favorite insurance people of all time. Kevin Davis, out of the great State of California, Los Angeles, assures me that

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: policy directors and offices, policies limiting

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the Management Company’s coverage only 1 million dollars. Even if the associations is bigger policy, it shows me that that is even true today.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: my guess is not a well. I know Kevin knows it, but cause he’s a managing general agent for a fantastic travel is bond specialized model lined. Dno policy. but not everybody knows as much as Kevin Davis knows very, very few people do. Sorry, Jake.

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Jake Marcus: Oh, that’s absolutely, absolutely! Kevin.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But you know, Kevin, so we had to give him a shout out.

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Jake Marcus: I saw Kevin Davis last week. It was great to see you, Kevin. Great to connect with Eric as well. And yeah, no, that was a great. We had a great great dinner in Vegas. Sorry to kind of take a step back. But it was yeah, definitely Kevin Davis. He’s the he’s the expert in the stuff good contact. In the insurance industry. So.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And and and I think they have.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: either 33,000 or 40,000 community association

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: directors and offices, liability policies in the United States.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and they also do fidelity insurance and crime and cyber cyber liability, which is another risk that associations

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: should think long and hard about getting it, because there’s no coverage. If you don’t

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: now, I’ll turn it back to to Jake. But we had to give Kevin at least 3 min of his 15 min of things.

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Jake Marcus: Oh, yeah, he deserves more than that. But anyways so so what I, what I wanna point out is the biggest takeaway that I took from what is called condo 3.0 bill. That’s the legislation that I keep referring to in Florida that could make its way to other jurisdictions in the near future long term future it. It. It’s probably gonna make its way into other jurisdictions in one way or another.

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Jake Marcus: the biggest, the biggest thing that stood out to me beyond just general transparency and regulation

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Jake Marcus: is this requirement as to condo records maintaining proper condo records? Making sure that you, you kind of

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Jake Marcus: actually, we just got a really good question. Why would folks volunteer for this kind of goes to the impetus? A lot of board member and and sorry for backtracking here. But I wanted to point out

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Jake Marcus: these are volunteer positions.

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Jake Marcus: and I will get into the program a little later, just about how

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Jake Marcus: you already have fiduciary responsibility as a board member. We’re already having difficulty getting people to volunteer, especially in a little more chaotic associations.

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Jake Marcus: it

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Jake Marcus: these this condo 3 point O Bill! It almost it. It disincentivizes even more. But in the long run it is a good thing there, there, and we do get to kind of what we expect is next. It’s not. It’s not necessarily what’s gonna happen, but what we could kind of policy, wise expect.

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Jake Marcus: and what we would push for as far as legislation and other jurisdictions across the nation. A. A. And we, you know, Steven and I have been involved a little bit nationally, which is, which is

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Jake Marcus: the with with Community Associations Institute. Cai, which, if you’re not involved with very important to get involved with. It. It is the go to Community Association network. Everything you it. It is the resource to go to for this in this field. That being said

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Jake Marcus: board members. Yes, it’s it’s a tough position, it it’s you know. It almost seems like

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Jake Marcus: you. You’re just stuck. And and it can be hard to get people to to run, especially in the more disheveled communities.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And sorry to keep jumping in here, I promise you, for the last 4 teams webinars enough for the fifteenth that I won’t interrupt, and I do it, do it constantly. But somebody on the list is saying something that we all knew, which is this is why people don’t like lawyers and politicians.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I know nobody likes me few people like Jake. But he doesn’t act as a lawyer. As to the politicians, be careful, because one of the suggestions we have here is

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: should and and other States may have it. My friend Mock mock Marquel, a big attorney in Texas. For condominiums and Homeowner Associations.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: has done a summary of the state of alarm. Terms of liability is 13 years old in all 50 States, and some

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: States capital liability, sometimes to the equity in the unit, sometimes so the amount of the mortgage but what we’d like to see I’m not sure it’s ever been discussed, at least in Massachusetts, is to introduce legislation

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that would cap liability as it does to municipal as it does to municipalities, because, we are always considered as quasi governmental, like entities.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And I I believe that municipalities are capped at $20,000, and that nonprofit. True nonprofits 501 C. 3, such as hospitals are capped at 100,000. We’d like to see that. And short of that, we’d like to see boys, and this is brand new

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: as far as I know, I’ve never heard it in the last 40 years is well, I’ve heard it once from a Joe attorney, and then New Jersey is putting in amendments for Tort immunity

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: that I think would at least apply and be found binding against unit owners and their occupants, I’m not sure, would be binding against tenants or not, or visitors, but to set the limits, because

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: by the end of this my rhetorical question, that might become a real one

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: is

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: at some point.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Who in the right mind is gonna serve on a board?

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Should we start annually? Gonna get the worst unit on is eventually to serve because nobody else will.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And again, something I’ve been talking about for 30 or 40 years, but think it’s coming to the forefront is, do we need professional paid board members. For example, a Condominium management company that serves solely as the Board of directors, and has a management other management company under under it. I know

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: we’re feeding you with a lot of information that’s probably making everybody nauseous.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But I guess my question is, if you haven’t heard this up to now.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and I really don’t think you have.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Then wouldn’t you rather know and go in with the what eyes wide open

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: versus

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: being in a position where there could be some risk

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: to becoming a trustee, because one of your neighbors wanted you to, and because your spouse thought it would be a good way to meet the neighbors.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: It’ll be. It’s probably a good way to meet the neighbors, but you probably won’t like what them meeting you about, and you’ll probably be afraid to go to the swimming pool.

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Jake Marcus: Yeah, I see it in a lot of especially high rise communities where you kind of have to go up and down an elevator.

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Jake Marcus: You can’t. If you’re a board member. Yeah, you can’t go. Let’s say you have. Pool. Can’t go there because you’re gonna get hected with questions. The so to that point, the board member, I’ve heard from many industry experts

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Jake Marcus: paid board members could be in the near future, or, more commonly, it has. It’s in some jurisdictions I know in Florida it’s technically allowed, but it has to be in the bylaws.

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Jake Marcus: It’s trip. It’s it’s hard to it’s harder to get

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: 1 one other interruption over my 100 interruptions up to now is, it’s an old example. So the numbers have changed. But I used to tell people 10 years ago. Well, if you have a hundred unit condominium

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and you’re on the board.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and each unit is worth 500,000,

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: which in some areas of the country, is probably a modest amount. At this point

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: you’re running a 50 million dollar

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: real estate business

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and condominium business.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: you probably have

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: great expertise.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and whatever your real job is, or was

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: very successful people around on these boards. But when it comes to dealing with issues with their neighbors.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: It’s there. Only failure in life is is that it? It’s tougher, but if you keep in mind, you’re running a 50 million dollar asset

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: hopefully that will shine on you, that that’s not something for

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: volunteers to leap into too quickly

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: unless you have the very best surrounded by the very best of experts on legal issues and property management and insurance and engineering. So I just throw that out there. Since I’ve gone. I’ve gone this far, and it explaining my concerns, and I apologize for doing it.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But I hope somebody will type even though it was painful. We are glad that you

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: share these concerns, Stephen.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I don’t see anybody typing, but if you want Jake back in.

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Jake Marcus: Okay, yes. So we get with a lot to get to in this last 12 min. I really, wanna I really wanna point out.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: You shouldn’t manage your time better.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: That.

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Jake Marcus: To the tango.

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Jake Marcus: So what I do want to get into is kind of condo. 3 bill in Florida House Bill House Bill 1,203. House Bill 1021.

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Jake Marcus: Again. Keep mentioning Florida because it makes sway into other jurisdictions

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Jake Marcus: this is overhauling association operations and the backdrop of that is structural integrity requirements as of

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Jake Marcus: And reserve requirements as of this year required by statute and now we’re getting to board member requirements, and I do want to just

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Jake Marcus: run off a list of items that I found to be interesting, or that stuck out to me in the bill.

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Jake Marcus: Official records

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Jake Marcus: again. I keep going back to it. Official records are a huge.

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Jake Marcus: a huge reason why this has come into play and transparency with

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Jake Marcus: official records. The the the thing that

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Jake Marcus: comes here is is, as I highly recommend getting with counsel or an attorney to discuss implementing reasonable rules as it relates to official records. This is kind of a good best practice. I do think the Massachusetts Statute is quite vague as far as what is is kind of required.

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Jake Marcus: and, for example, what I mean by that, is it? It’s a reasonable time to provide the financial records. What is a reasonable time is kind of ambiguous so in implementing timeline requirements, for example, in Florida, it’s 10 days. I think that’s quick. But yeah, I I think a reasonable time. That could be a month, 2 months. It it’s not very clear. So a. The other thing I wanna point out.

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Jake Marcus: you need to make sure you’re accounting for all your financial records. And books of the association.

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Jake Marcus: Look, there’s turnover with boards. Things get lost in the shuffle, the new requirement with the managers or the bill in Florida, with the managers, having to provide within 20 days the the books and records of the Association.

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Jake Marcus: Is good after being terminated, I I should say. Because there’s some continuity there. Things get lost in the shuffle. I see it in our litigation practice all the time

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Jake Marcus: we are like.

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Jake Marcus: we’re going through discovery. The other sides needs documentation to the proof where to the case we’re trying to prove or defend, and we don’t have the information. So it’s I can’t emphasize this enough. It is so important to maintain records in an organized and reasonable fashion.

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Jake Marcus: so. And look here, here’s here’s the thing.

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Jake Marcus: The statute that what we could see is is is requirements to not only get documents that

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Jake Marcus: you have.

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Jake Marcus: but get the documents that

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Jake Marcus: you know you have to make a good faith attempt to recreate the documents. You can’t just say oh, we lost it. Oh, we can’t! Oh, that was the prior board. Oh, we can’t find it.

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Jake Marcus: You have to make a good faith attempt to recreate the documents. Whether that’s reaching out to a prior board reaching out to a prior manager. You you gotta try to obtain absent records

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Jake Marcus: again. What if there’s a request, a a and I think I think the timeline, I would say at least we say in a in our field, it’s 7 years

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Jake Marcus: to to keep records for you know. Try, try to maintain records. And and that that goes to

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Jake Marcus: you know, having a website, just have everything on the website. If it if it’s if it’s easy to manage, there’s plenty of software companies that we can recommend

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Jake Marcus: and and it’s just it’s a good. It’s a good practice to to have a website.

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Jake Marcus: If if you’re a larger community, I mean, I wouldn’t say if you’re a 10 unit community. It’s it’s necessarily

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Jake Marcus: required. It might actually cost more than than you know, implementing just a general good practice for notice requirements and organizing your documents in a in a file that is easily shareable or easy to inspect

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Jake Marcus: a few more things furnish checklist of records. When you get a records request.

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Jake Marcus: or an inspection request.

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Jake Marcus: and this should be a checklist of what you have, what you don’t have.

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Jake Marcus: We can provide examples of of what that may look like and and what you should be maintaining. Do you keep every email do you keep? And and I know I know you’ll I know you’ll interrupt me again, Steven. A good best practice

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Jake Marcus: is to make sure. As a board member.

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Jake Marcus: Don’t use your Gmail account for board operations use a specific email that’s devoted to the association operations.

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00:54:23.410 –> 00:54:24.890
Jake Marcus: Were you gonna say that Steven.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yeah, they yeah

401
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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: down.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: It’s an ask you to be careful of what you say in public, because be prepared for it to be in the tonight’s newspaper. That’s when they used to be newspapers.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: the

404
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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: yeah.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: If this is, we suggest that you have. If you have the ABC. Condominium Trust

406
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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: or Association

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: get the domain name ABC. Condominium, Trust or Association. Also service. Mark the name so. But to know unit owners who are doing nasty sites using your associations name, so protect the service. Mark, protect the name with the service mark to protect the verification.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But it will do 2 things. One, it will take

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: your email, all your emails which be in the thousands

410
00:55:28.250 –> 00:55:32.119
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and narrow it to just condominium business ones.

411
00:55:32.330 –> 00:55:42.280
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: The other thing it will do hopefully is knowing that it’s a separate specific condominium domain name.

412
00:55:42.510 –> 00:55:56.119
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: We, you change the directors and take people off and on as the directors change you might think more about what you post versus if you just have an informal

413
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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: email change where it’s oh, Joe, and you know 101 as a loser. I hate them. These are the 10 reasons you probably don’t want all your emails discovered and discovered.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Exactly.

415
00:56:14.140 –> 00:56:16.499
Jake Marcus: Exactly, and I wanted to point out. So I I.

416
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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But thanks for interrupting me.

417
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Jake Marcus: I went. I I I did deal with an arbitration where this exact issue came up. And yeah, you don’t want everything to be

418
00:56:26.485 –> 00:56:37.040
Jake Marcus: kind of available in discovery. We went through. It ended up, and they kept the the the the board or the Association had kept

419
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Jake Marcus: paper records

420
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Jake Marcus: or they had not created paper records. They had some stuff, an email. They had to recreate through their Gmail because some operations were sent.

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Jake Marcus: You know it was emails to to unit owners.

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Jake Marcus: I I know I didn’t. I didn’t agree with the case. I thought I thought I thought it shouldn’t have been. Every email is discoverable from your Gmail account.

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Jake Marcus: But the arbitrator wasn’t hearing it that day.

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Jake Marcus: And and so that’s just a word of caution someone did mention is condo condo Bill, re

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Jake Marcus: condo. 3.0 bill isn’t an association with 25 units or more. Now you will have to have a website that is correct.

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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And and Florida.

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Jake Marcus: In Florida. Sorry? Yes, and that that will likely come into effect July first.

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Jake Marcus: 25 units or more. And I I I think that, luckily, in other jurisdictions, if you’re not in Florida, that is good, but also a word of caution just to say, Okay.

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Jake Marcus: you know what? Maybe we should consider our website. Let’s see what the software companies. Let’s see the cost of this. Let’s see, let’s just make sure it’s easier for it. There’s that there is that kind of bridge to get there. But once you’re there, the efficiency of getting information out and making sure your community is transparent.

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Jake Marcus: Is is important. And and again.

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Jake Marcus: I think, I think, with the websites, it’s it’s it’s almost. It’s only accessible for unit owners with a port, or should be accessible

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00:58:08.680 –> 00:58:19.909
Jake Marcus: to unit owners with like a portal login to to access all the documents especially agenda meetings, contracts competitive bids. Alright. We have.

433
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Jake Marcus: We gotta get to all. We gotta get to the rest of this, though. Penalties for willful and repeated violations.

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Jake Marcus: increased penalties. This could include criminal.

435
00:58:28.380 –> 00:58:39.940
Jake Marcus: I don’t want to scare you. This is this is like if it’s the the Hamex embezzlement case, I don’t think they’re good. I don’t think it’s not going to be criminal penalties, as if it’s not willful and repeated.

436
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Jake Marcus: So just something to keep in mind websites 25 units or more

437
00:58:44.611 –> 00:58:49.589
Jake Marcus: these are board member requirements that we kind of are suggesting based on this Florida legislation

438
00:58:49.940 –> 00:58:58.040
Jake Marcus: contracts to be approved must be attached to an agenda. So if you have a a meeting make sure to include any contracts to be considered

439
00:58:58.130 –> 00:59:16.809
Jake Marcus: a, and the reasoning for this is the conflict of interest, type of thing, for transparency, for unit owners to vote on contracts. There is also a a new manager. For some reason the Florida legislation. They separated it between ho and condo. I’m not entirely sure why

440
00:59:17.174 –> 00:59:29.550
Jake Marcus: some some requirements for an hoa, some requirements for a condo. I I don’t, and I I I think it. It’s a little I I think the practices can apply to both. But

441
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Jake Marcus: so for property managers solicit compa, there is a new change to solicit competitive bids. So, for example, you can’t just go to one person and say, Oh, we’re good

442
00:59:40.591 –> 00:59:44.410
Jake Marcus: and that goes right to contracts being approved, contracts being

443
00:59:44.875 –> 00:59:48.449
Jake Marcus: that to be approved must be attached to the agenda agenda.

444
00:59:49.006 –> 00:59:50.060
Jake Marcus: Board meetings

445
00:59:51.131 –> 00:59:56.540
Jake Marcus: depending on the size is required to meet at least quarterly.

446
00:59:57.890 –> 01:00:00.410
Jake Marcus: have a board meeting at least quarterly

447
01:00:00.958 –> 01:00:11.000
Jake Marcus: that. That that would mean, you know, getting you your board together, but also to take it a step further

448
01:00:11.020 –> 01:00:17.964
Jake Marcus: a lap you cannot just I know I see it in a lot of meetings, unfortunately. Where

449
01:00:18.600 –> 01:00:29.740
Jake Marcus: or I hear about it more so where? Where unit owners are either muted or told not to ask questions. There’s now going to be through Condo 3.0 bill

450
01:00:30.221 –> 01:00:52.750
Jake Marcus: you have to allow members to ask questions about status of construction projects and revenues and ex expenses for the current fiscal year. I think that’s a good practice. Make sure you’re being transparent. Allow the unit orders to ask questions, especially to to those 2 areas. New parameters as far as electronic voting.

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01:00:53.246 –> 01:01:10.303
Jake Marcus: That. Again, I I think that’s just important notify owners. Or you know, I think it’s important to notify owners. 90. What’s in Florida must notify owners 90 days prior to election of delinquency, status, and possible suspension of voting rights.

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01:01:10.700 –> 01:01:30.989
Jake Marcus: this, this last one’s a big one. Continuing education requirements. In Florida the new requirements will be an initial session, which is a 4 h class for board members and then on top of that a 1 h yearly update required certificate valid for 7 years of continuous service.

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01:01:31.627 –> 01:01:49.540
Jake Marcus: And must certify annually that all directors complied with the educational requirements, and then as to cam requirements, and for some again, for some reason, it’s just for hoas but in Florida. But again, this is something to consider if you’re a

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01:01:49.670 –> 01:01:51.043
Jake Marcus: property manager.

455
01:01:51.920 –> 01:01:57.520
Jake Marcus: The the new requirement is to attend in person at least one meeting per year.

456
01:01:58.411 –> 01:02:04.679
Jake Marcus: I think it’s easier on Zoom. I mean, I’m glad we can do this and do it via zoom and technology is great. But

457
01:02:04.950 –> 01:02:08.990
Jake Marcus: I think the having a in-person meeting with

458
01:02:09.902 –> 01:02:12.917
Jake Marcus: your cam is is also important.

459
01:02:13.870 –> 01:02:14.189
Jake Marcus: Furniture.

460
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Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Sure. Yeah. Might be some who disagree. I’ve been having automobiles for the environment isn’t a good thing if they’re all driving around some people as they get older, whatever it’s just, it’s just more comfortable not having to drive someplace. So there is. not. Everything in this bill is loved by Cai chapters or managers down and

461
01:02:39.590 –> 01:03:02.629
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: down in Florida. Some say the State should stay out of private contracts but there are arguments both ways. A bit, because it’s a couple of minutes past 11. Jake. I I I just wanted to say one thing that we haven’t mentioned before either, which is, we’ll probably go another 1015 min if

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01:03:02.660 –> 01:03:06.459
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: people want to hang around. But if

463
01:03:06.480 –> 01:03:12.040
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: your boards or management, or managers, if you’re a management company.

464
01:03:12.250 –> 01:03:17.814
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: or even if you’re insurance carrier or a yeah insurance agent.

465
01:03:18.520 –> 01:03:29.749
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: if you want us to be, because I do, awful at time management and there was just so much information here, and maybe specific questions you have.

466
01:03:30.350 –> 01:03:31.220
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: If

467
01:03:31.710 –> 01:03:35.009
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: you want a free

468
01:03:36.046 –> 01:03:38.079
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Zoom Meeting

469
01:03:38.120 –> 01:03:49.090
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: with Jacob myself or other people from the office with your board or with your managers, if you’re a management company jurors, etc.

470
01:03:49.510 –> 01:04:17.169
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: we are happy to do that at no cost say, a 1 h program so that if there’s one board member on a call today on this call that, perhaps you could have all 5 of them on a specialized Zoom Meeting just or Microsoft teams meeting just for you.

471
01:04:17.170 –> 01:04:26.080
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So notify Jacob myself. Jacob am condu, Lotcom, if that’s of interest. Jake. Sorry.

472
01:04:26.080 –> 01:04:43.380
Jake Marcus: Yeah, no, absolutely. So, so yeah, just the I I think both. For there there is also more cam property manager heightened requirements for education additional education, that is is being considered.

473
01:04:44.970 –> 01:04:54.299
Jake Marcus: so that’s that. I think that’s just important. And and some of the topics that would include inspection, structural integrity, levying fines, budget, financial literacy.

474
01:04:54.722 –> 01:05:03.359
Jake Marcus: Even your own governing documents taking a look at those. So yeah, I I I think there’s so many changes.

475
01:05:03.772 –> 01:05:06.130
Jake Marcus: We do. I wanted to get to. Kind of

476
01:05:06.270 –> 01:05:11.909
Jake Marcus: what do we? Okay? Then, this is, you know, talking about property, manager responsibilities and education

477
01:05:12.010 –> 01:05:19.010
Jake Marcus: attending board meetings contracts, you know, soliciting competitive bids is a good practice.

478
01:05:19.975 –> 01:05:23.610
Jake Marcus: Making sure you disclose any conflicts.

479
01:05:24.181 –> 01:05:26.139
Jake Marcus: It’s important to disclose that

480
01:05:27.680 –> 01:05:33.000
Jake Marcus: and and ensuring that everything is, is, is provided and transparent as possible.

481
01:05:34.050 –> 01:05:37.249
Jake Marcus: Again, this is kind of what we’ve gone over.

482
01:05:38.430 –> 01:05:43.829
Jake Marcus: and we’ll send out this Powerpoint. Sorry I’m rushing through it. But we we there’s so much to talk about.

483
01:05:44.121 –> 01:05:49.179
Jake Marcus: So yeah, I I I think. What else could we see what’s what’s kind of the next

484
01:05:49.370 –> 01:05:53.950
Jake Marcus: next? Steps? How do we encourage board members to run for the board?

485
01:05:55.167 –> 01:06:05.002
Jake Marcus: You know, I think a big thing is ensuring that we’re staying on top of all the changes

486
01:06:05.630 –> 01:06:12.929
Jake Marcus: one bullet point I want to point out on this slide. What else could we see pay? Would we talked about a bit paid board members instead of volunteers?

487
01:06:12.940 –> 01:06:27.009
Jake Marcus: I I think that could be a good policy change. There’s more intricacies to that, because right now, as it’s as it’s kind of set up, is, the board has the fiduciary responsibilities, and is more or less the volunteer

488
01:06:27.570 –> 01:06:51.129
Jake Marcus: while the manager is the impartial third party that is kind of overseeing and managing the operations and and and kind of involved on the outside, but usually have on site managers who are who are in in in pretty constant interaction with the board.

489
01:06:52.377 –> 01:07:08.119
Jake Marcus: but the the the manager is the paid employee of the Association while the Board members are the volunteers, but have the increased responsibilities and duties fiduciary under fiduciary basis. So

490
01:07:08.450 –> 01:07:16.750
Jake Marcus: it it’s tricky. I did hear someone in Vegas over at the Cai National event this past week. Say

491
01:07:17.890 –> 01:07:39.289
Jake Marcus: so. So it goes hand in hand with what we’re discussing, requiring certified management companies that that can be tricky a a. And and I think with with the with the heightened education and and all that. It. It’s something that might make sense, though it. It might make sense to kind of. Make sure that

492
01:07:39.290 –> 01:07:49.939
Jake Marcus: your management company is is, is kind of is at a certain caliber. And and look they have. They do have the cam requirements. Lcam.

493
01:07:51.680 –> 01:08:06.199
Jake Marcus: that is one kind of barrier to to weed out the bad players and and and make sure that you are adequately managed. There might be other measures that we we could see.

494
01:08:06.992 –> 01:08:23.289
Jake Marcus: just some other things that we might see in purchases. Maybe this goes hand in hand with disclosures and and making sure that everything is is transparent as possible. Background checks and financial income, that that might be something that board members do

495
01:08:23.664 –> 01:08:32.209
Jake Marcus: or have have more requirements to do. We, I mean, we see it in Florida a lot. I don’t really see it as much in Massachusetts, in the Condo community.

496
01:08:33.729 –> 01:08:36.710
Jake Marcus: And then lending changes. Fannie, Mae and Freddie Mac.

497
01:08:36.790 –> 01:08:40.489
Jake Marcus: That is a huge topic that we’re seeing.

498
01:08:41.093 –> 01:08:43.510
Jake Marcus: There’s a corporate transparency act.

499
01:08:44.720 –> 01:08:46.992
Jake Marcus: technically, that is a

500
01:08:47.569 –> 01:08:53.996
Jake Marcus: statute. That’s a statute, and it it’s

501
01:08:55.870 –> 01:09:07.599
Jake Marcus: we recommend. We recommend filing. If you’re a board member under the Corporate Transparency Act, there are some there is some legislation, or actually

502
01:09:09.000 –> 01:09:13.639
Jake Marcus: there. There is some some law going on in Alabama that

503
01:09:14.069 –> 01:09:29.130
Jake Marcus: is kind of trying to get more exempt status, especially for small businesses, but we would recommend at least our suggestion is to to file. It is the law you haven’t. You do have until the end of the year. We do have a a portal that you can use to to file

504
01:09:30.630 –> 01:09:43.130
Jake Marcus: But yeah, I I I think that there’s there’s some there’s so much going on that that’s just the the corporate Transparency act is just another another another new board requirement, as of now.

505
01:09:43.612 –> 01:10:05.010
Jake Marcus: At least in our opinion. But the everything else in between and everything else that we can expect in the future. Is coming up, and and and we have a couple of bullet points here. What else can board members do? How do we encourage board members to run again? Compliance with statutory changes.

506
01:10:05.060 –> 01:10:18.339
Jake Marcus: making sure if you’re comp if you’re already keeping up with the educational requirements that may go hand in hand. But I think it’s always important to stay in contact again. We’re just the attorneys. Stay in contact with your attorneys. But also we.

507
01:10:18.360 –> 01:10:41.509
Jake Marcus: a a lot of us in the community, have a lot of different resources from insurance agents, making sure your insurance is properly handled, making sure that you reach out to a reserve advisor. If you need to, to ensure that your reserve account is up is is is good to go reaching out to even even security people as as Steven had mentioned.

508
01:10:42.103 –> 01:10:53.679
Jake Marcus: Security and premises. Liability is a huge topic in light of serve side and the fields double homicide case and.

509
01:10:53.680 –> 01:10:54.230
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Can.

510
01:10:54.520 –> 01:11:14.379
Jake Marcus: And and yeah, I I I think I think there’s there’s a lot of other engineers as another one to ensure structural integrity. Getting with a a a getting with the right people and having a good team of avengers to kind of keep up with everything. Not just the legal development statutory changes

511
01:11:14.380 –> 01:11:25.479
Jake Marcus: to keep up with every every facet of your community. Is is a huge being. Proactive is is one of the biggest biggest things that I would recommend

512
01:11:25.590 –> 01:11:29.979
Jake Marcus: board, immunity associations, defense counsel.

513
01:11:30.468 –> 01:11:31.939
Jake Marcus: and as Stephen got.

514
01:11:32.230 –> 01:11:32.520
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: To.

515
01:11:32.520 –> 01:11:42.330
Jake Marcus: It’s getting the right insurance in place, directors and officers, if you, if you’re you know the the board, make sure you’re protected from being sued directly.

516
01:11:42.600 –> 01:11:45.900
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And also the comprehensive general liability.

517
01:11:46.170 –> 01:11:46.500
Jake Marcus: Yeah.

518
01:11:46.500 –> 01:12:10.480
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Cases like the ended up with bodily injury, death, or personal property that would come under Cgl, whereas dno could could cover out other items, including non monetary damages, but will not. Typically, yeah. Defend. If there’s bodily injury or property damage.

519
01:12:12.180 –> 01:12:12.790
Jake Marcus: Fantastic.

520
01:12:14.630 –> 01:12:15.530
Jake Marcus: What else?

521
01:12:16.310 –> 01:12:17.499
Jake Marcus: What time is it.

522
01:12:17.500 –> 01:12:18.040
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Love.

523
01:12:18.770 –> 01:12:19.549
Jake Marcus: We’ve got.

524
01:12:19.550 –> 01:12:48.471
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: People can call. My cell is (781) 413-5226. You can email us, would be happy to do a free Zoom Meeting with your boards or with your management company with your managers or management companies. Wanna invite their board members to also be on the Zoom Meeting. We could do that. But

525
01:12:50.027 –> 01:12:56.760
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: there’s a lot. There’s a lot to this. So we apologize after the fact if

526
01:12:56.880 –> 01:12:58.869
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: we said things that

527
01:12:58.880 –> 01:13:01.690
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: made people a little nervous.

528
01:13:01.860 –> 01:13:06.029
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: but we thought we had a responsibility

529
01:13:06.330 –> 01:13:09.980
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: to let us know some of the fears that we have

530
01:13:11.680 –> 01:13:14.660
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: so you can do with them as you as you want.

531
01:13:16.140 –> 01:13:19.961
Jake Marcus: Excellent. Yeah, we already, we we still have a lot of people here. So I mean,

532
01:13:20.390 –> 01:13:22.029
Jake Marcus: any more questions.

533
01:13:22.670 –> 01:13:39.723
Jake Marcus: It’s a lot. Yeah. Again. It’s a lot of information. It’s a lot of scary information. But I think if you’re keeping up with with with certain, with with certain developments you. You’re you’re you’re in a good spot.

534
01:13:40.620 –> 01:13:47.309
Jake Marcus: are there any 4 h courses currently available that could satisfy the Ceu requirements for board of trustees now.

535
01:13:47.873 –> 01:13:53.939
Jake Marcus: We could look into that. I I’m sure there’s, I’m sure, now, especially with these developments. They’re they’re probably offering.

536
01:13:54.110 –> 01:13:55.669
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: So that would be Flora.

537
01:13:56.000 –> 01:13:57.650
Jake Marcus: That would be in Florida.

538
01:13:58.140 –> 01:14:00.610
Jake Marcus: yeah, that that’s it.

539
01:14:00.980 –> 01:14:05.030
Jake Marcus: From my understanding. I don’t know if it’d be classes like this, because it’d just be.

540
01:14:05.320 –> 01:14:21.590
Jake Marcus: you know Steven and I chit chatting about Taylor Swift, so you wouldn’t learn anything. But there’s some. Some attorneys are teaching classes or webinars in this format and those from my understanding, satisfy the seat continuing education requirements.

541
01:14:22.810 –> 01:14:27.619
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I I think one manager down there, maybe Campbell, I I think, does the same.

542
01:14:27.790 –> 01:14:28.720
Jake Marcus: So good. Yep.

543
01:14:29.060 –> 01:14:29.680
Jake Marcus: aye.

544
01:14:29.680 –> 01:14:34.479
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: They bring in guests like politicians and other folks and attorneys, and.

545
01:14:34.890 –> 01:14:39.371
Jake Marcus: And that. Yeah, I think that’s important. I I I think a lot of this.

546
01:14:40.200 –> 01:14:52.439
Jake Marcus: Florida is all Florida is the guinea pig in a lot of these issues. They proved they they they statutorily added. The electronic voting in 2,015 Massachusetts

547
01:14:52.460 –> 01:15:06.300
Jake Marcus: has still not added and we’re working on it. But legislatively to get the electronic voting. Approved but.

548
01:15:06.811 –> 01:15:33.388
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I I think the Legislature has been sidelined by Covid bills for the State, and then some of the diversity equity inclusion issues. I have a good feeling that the Senate and House in Massachusetts might pass this before the end of the session on July 30, first

549
01:15:33.950 –> 01:15:58.500
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: 2024. I know we have Cai and Matt Gaines and Peter West Taber working feverishly on trying to do as much as possible to pass these bills. It’s House Bill 1338 instead of Bill 900. If you have. Politicians that, you’re friendly with that you could you think would help us

550
01:15:58.570 –> 01:16:02.179
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: pass, allowing for virtual meetings. Electronic voting.

551
01:16:03.082 –> 01:16:05.697
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Please let us know. And

552
01:16:06.230 –> 01:16:15.560
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: hopefully that passes. But you can also do it by a bylaw amendment to your documents and not worry about whether the legislature accident.

553
01:16:16.930 –> 01:16:22.700
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Are we sorry about a time, Jake? We’ve have had these nice people here for 15 min more than

554
01:16:23.170 –> 01:16:24.740
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: we we promised.

555
01:16:24.740 –> 01:16:27.100
Jake Marcus: Trying to find any other questions.

556
01:16:28.770 –> 01:16:30.800
Jake Marcus: I think we’re. I think we’re pretty.

557
01:16:30.800 –> 01:16:35.700
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yeah, they were pretty caught up. But we’re gonna send a link to the recording

558
01:16:36.363 –> 01:16:38.430
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: a copy of the Powerpoint.

559
01:16:38.770 –> 01:16:52.750
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And I’m gonna need Jake’s help on this, because some of them are specific to Florida answers to every question that was in the chat. If Jake makes a copy of it and send this to me and all.

560
01:16:52.770 –> 01:16:56.340
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yeah. So you probably get that by next Tuesday or Wednesday.

561
01:16:56.340 –> 01:17:10.200
Jake Marcus: We just got a an interesting question, how’s the current issue with pure tight in concrete impacting the responsibility of boards? And ma, we yeah, we we’ve done a few present. We’ve done past presentations and have got questions on pure white

562
01:17:10.932 –> 01:17:12.377
Jake Marcus: Japanese knotweed.

563
01:17:13.920 –> 01:17:21.059
Jake Marcus: I haven’t heard too much. What? What? What have you? I mean that that’s something that’s usually a considered a Latin defect.

564
01:17:22.200 –> 01:17:24.509
Jake Marcus: but, Steven, what is what are you hearing.

565
01:17:24.985 –> 01:17:48.300
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay? So the problem is, it was concrete only used within a certain radius of a place in Ca, Connecticut. So it’s affecting some metro west Massachusetts condominiums. It was the product use long, long time ago that now people are finding is failing.

566
01:17:48.300 –> 01:18:01.709
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And there is some. There’s some state legislation and some at least one State Advocacy group that is looking into the issue.

567
01:18:02.115 –> 01:18:14.699
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: But I guess I would suggest that the cause. I it seems to be a specific person who keeps raising the issue is that you circle back with your manager

568
01:18:14.700 –> 01:18:35.130
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: and have them circle back with your with their the law firm for the Association. And then Google, I think on Facebook, you’re gonna find that there are interest groups that are pushing for this because of it’s bad. It’s sort of like all the concrete has to be removed

569
01:18:35.513 –> 01:18:41.490
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: or there’s eventually gonna be a disaster. So it’s a serious question. But it’s a

570
01:18:41.570 –> 01:18:45.550
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: specific question, limited to only

571
01:18:45.600 –> 01:18:55.129
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: some condominiums. And I think that’s best dealt with with your your manager, your legal team and your engineers.

572
01:18:55.860 –> 01:18:57.769
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Sorry I don’t have a better answer.

573
01:18:57.770 –> 01:19:01.880
Jake Marcus: No, that’s I mean, that’s a good good answer. I I think the biggest thing is.

574
01:19:01.980 –> 01:19:08.939
Jake Marcus: we’re just lowly attorneys. We can only advise so much. I

575
01:19:09.350 –> 01:19:33.330
Jake Marcus: I think a lot of what we tend to kind of see and what we we try to navigate as attorneys is getting you in touch with the right people who are able to take it. The step further, who have the A. A insight into the specific issues involved getting the right engineer out to the property. If it’s an insurance issue getting the right insurance broker insurance carrier

576
01:19:34.025 –> 01:19:39.980
Jake Marcus: on the scene, navigating a an insurance claim. If you’re an owner

577
01:19:40.360 –> 01:19:53.340
Jake Marcus: board member getting a public adjuster. If you are, you know, need reserve studies done getting a reserve specialist out. I think it’s really important to have a team of experts

578
01:19:53.838 –> 01:19:56.650
Jake Marcus: to really get involved with everything.

579
01:19:57.122 –> 01:20:04.477
Jake Marcus: And at least at least at least get to to to make sure that everything’s operating smoothly.

580
01:20:04.910 –> 01:20:14.580
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Thanks everybody for for joining us. Sorry for keeping you so late. Thanks for all the people who stayed on. We’ll be sending a copy of the link to this

581
01:20:15.036 –> 01:20:26.519
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: webinar. If you wanna share it with your your board members or managers, etc. we will also send answers to all the questions that were asked.

582
01:20:26.997 –> 01:20:47.582
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Even if we answer them today. and we will send the Powerpoint. And I thought that might be a nautical that Jake had on board member liability. But I’m not 100% sure of that. So thank you. Have a great weekend.

583
01:20:48.030 –> 01:20:53.679
Jake Marcus: Appreciate, appreciate everyone. If you want to email us, we have our emails right here on the

584
01:20:54.330 –> 01:21:00.462
Jake Marcus: final slide. But we do appreciate everyone showing up today and staying late even

585
01:21:01.160 –> 01:21:07.899
Jake Marcus: I’m sure there’s a lot a lot more fun things you’d want to do on this nice Friday morning. But

586
01:21:08.160 –> 01:21:20.970
Jake Marcus: here we are. So hopefully, it was useful. Hopefully, it was helpful, and happy to answer any questions further, because it’s apparently this does seem like a hot topic with it, with everyone with everyone attending.

587
01:21:20.990 –> 01:21:28.189
Jake Marcus: So appreciate it. Have a great Friday. Have a great weekend talk soon and signing off for the Marcus hour. Jake, Marcus.

588
01:21:36.040 –> 01:21:39.330
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Take? Do you cut and paste the chat, and the QA.

589
01:21:39.330 –> 01:21:40.170
Jake Marcus: Yes, sir.

590
01:21:40.670 –> 01:21:45.400
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Yeah, if you send that to me on on someone, I think I’m gonna need your answers.

591
01:21:45.840 –> 01:21:46.750
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: And

592
01:21:48.040 –> 01:21:49.720
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: I’ll talk to you.

593
01:21:50.470 –> 01:21:52.060
Jake Marcus: I’ll talk to you later, Steven.

594
01:21:52.060 –> 01:21:53.580
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay. Thanks.

595
01:21:53.800 –> 01:21:54.660
Jake Marcus: Thanks there!

596
01:21:54.660 –> 01:21:57.550
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Good job, Jake. Sorry for the interruptions.

597
01:21:57.882 –> 01:21:58.880
Jake Marcus: You did! Great

598
01:21:59.240 –> 01:22:00.800
Jake Marcus: even with your cold.

599
01:22:01.932 –> 01:22:03.980
Stephen Marcus – Allcock & Marcus: Okay. Alright.

600
01:22:03.980 –> 01:22:04.540
Jake Marcus: That.